Goblins, an Undervalued Tribe in Vintage

@Naixin At some point I'll get around to updating the Dack goblins thread.

Artifact: 10
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Trinisphere

Creature: 26
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Enchantment: 4
4 Blood Moon

Land:20
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain

SB: 15
4 Ingot Chewer
1 Shattering Spree
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Thorn of Amthyst
2 Pyroblast
2 Tormod's Crypt

Current draft of a Goblin stompy deck based off of the legacy version. Wins with moon effects and random beats. Pretty fun.

last edited by Naixin

So right now I think the best "goblins" deck is a red shops deck with 4 Goblin Welders 😞 I've been playing different goblin builds and they all seem to fall flat to mentor or shops. Sure, I can tune it to beat mentor but I lose to shops, or vice versa.

Anyone else have better luck?

I had the same problem last time playing elves, which shares some similarities. Mentor and pyromancer have the same advantages that tribal decks have, but their ability to control the game is much bigger. Combo decks are faster than you. And control decks have evolved to be effective against creatures. Not a good time to be in the tribal side of the road.

@xouman yeah. I'm taking another look at goblins now. With how heavy mentor decks are, a good earwig squad can cripple them. The issue now is that ballista is bad news. I might do some maindeck null rods. Overall, I think the issue with goblins is that you live or die by your opening 7 in the same vein as shops, workshop is much easier to be impactful with than a lackey.

When I was Testing Goblins, Mentor was my worst matchup, but I think if built properly, can be very good against them. I think Goblin Sharpshooter should be a 4 Of alongside a set of Sulfur Elemental, this means every time they cast a spell, they take one point of damage for every Sharpshooter you have in play. Multiple Sharpshooter in play also help against Dredge, eating all zombie tokens. Another sideboard card I think that would help against Mentor is Blood Moon.

@msg67183 the issue with that is it makes you really soft to shops. I updated my current list to reflect how I feel about the metagame (mainly changed mental misstep from the SB to null rod since PO storm > DP storm atm).

// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Trinisphere
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Mindslaver

// 18 Creature
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Earwig Squad
3 Goblin Welder
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Wurmcoil Engine

// 3 Enchantment
3 Chains of Mephistopheles

// 4 Instant
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ancient Grudge

// 17 Land
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Badlands
2 Volcanic Island
4 Mana Confluence
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire

// 3 Planeswalker
2 Dack Fayden
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

// 4 Sorcery
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Artifact
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Null Rod

// 9 Creature
SB: 3 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Krenko, Mob Boss
SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 2 Ingot Chewer
SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter

// 1 Instant
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge

// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Shattering Spree

I had a good Workshops matchup with my list, the Sulfur Elementals were in my board.

How's the mindslaver working out for you?

@AmbivalentDuck I like it. At worst it's a bomb that they have to FOW. At best you go infinite with welder + darretti.

Slaver vs a Gush deck with Chains in play is brutal.

@Serracollector chains is brutal in this meta. I think this goblins deck has potential. It runs a lot like the 5c control decks but instead of using workshops to cheat out fatties, you have lackey. You basically have better tutoring and explosiveness than the shops deck but less consistency. I guess not being hit by artifact hate is a plus (although right now Ballista and STP is at an all time high).

As silly as this might sound, I'm actually not sure that the deck still needs Lackey/Matron/Incinerator. Chains shuts down whole archetypes. Some combination of a relevant Rogue and Welders should be plenty? Dack + Welder + Null Rod seems like a huge problem for artifact-based decks.

@AmbivalentDuck I can definitely see it working without Lackey. Not sure how I feel about no Matron though, as the tutoring has been pretty relevant. If we do get rid of the lackey, I can see us making a case for something like Sundering titan to give more of a stax feel.

4 Lackey could be Duress/Thoughtseize/Mental Misstep?

It feels the need for some form of protection.

I'm not sure. It seems like the strongest line of attack against you is actually just huge critters and Walking Ballista/Ravager effects. Some combination of protection from removal and Krenko is likely the way to go.

So, God Pharaoh's Gift is now a thing. All of your dead stuff comes back as hasty 4/4s, which is a pretty big deal, and you get the ETB triggers. I'm pretty sure that's better than Mindslaver.

@AmbivalentDuck serious question, what do you think about Gate to the Afterlife?

@Brass-Man Seems like a rough grind to get six critters into your graveyard. If you're playing Gobs, it's for the Dack, Welder, Chains, and Earwig Squad package. Tinker for Gift lets any dead Welders and Matrons come back at a size Shops can't ignore. I might be thinking about that entirely wrong and maybe it's better just to board into something like Paradoxical Outcome since most Shops players will board out their Thorns after seeing a bunch of goblins game 1.

Anyone have any plans to revisit this archtype? It seems the meta has changed significantly and we may or may not be better positioned? Mentor got restricted so we no longer have to worry about playing terrible cards to try to get around it (sharpshooter/sulfur elemental). However Oath is now extremely popular so we may be forced to play x4 Grafdigger's Cage and/or Leyline of Sanctity or splash white for containment priest. The new shops builds can give us trouble with Walking Ballista; however Null Rod shuts down Ravager/Ballista pretty hard and I feel like we have the ability to swarm the field and win vs Ravager Shops is straight creature combat.

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