Goblins, an Undervalued Tribe in Vintage



  • I had the same problem last time playing elves, which shares some similarities. Mentor and pyromancer have the same advantages that tribal decks have, but their ability to control the game is much bigger. Combo decks are faster than you. And control decks have evolved to be effective against creatures. Not a good time to be in the tribal side of the road.



  • @xouman yeah. I'm taking another look at goblins now. With how heavy mentor decks are, a good earwig squad can cripple them. The issue now is that ballista is bad news. I might do some maindeck null rods. Overall, I think the issue with goblins is that you live or die by your opening 7 in the same vein as shops, workshop is much easier to be impactful with than a lackey.



  • When I was Testing Goblins, Mentor was my worst matchup, but I think if built properly, can be very good against them. I think Goblin Sharpshooter should be a 4 Of alongside a set of Sulfur Elemental, this means every time they cast a spell, they take one point of damage for every Sharpshooter you have in play. Multiple Sharpshooter in play also help against Dredge, eating all zombie tokens. Another sideboard card I think that would help against Mentor is Blood Moon.



  • @msg67183 the issue with that is it makes you really soft to shops. I updated my current list to reflect how I feel about the metagame (mainly changed mental misstep from the SB to null rod since PO storm > DP storm atm).

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 11 Artifact
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mindslaver

    // 18 Creature
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Earwig Squad
    3 Goblin Welder
    1 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Wurmcoil Engine

    // 3 Enchantment
    3 Chains of Mephistopheles

    // 4 Instant
    1 Demonic Consultation
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Ancient Grudge

    // 17 Land
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 Badlands
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Mana Confluence
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Bloodstained Mire

    // 3 Planeswalker
    2 Dack Fayden
    1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

    // 4 Sorcery
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Tinker
    1 Yawgmoth's Will

    // 15 Sideboard
    // 4 Artifact
    SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 Null Rod

    // 9 Creature
    SB: 3 Containment Priest
    SB: 1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
    SB: 2 Ingot Chewer
    SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter

    // 1 Instant
    SB: 1 Ancient Grudge

    // 1 Sorcery
    SB: 1 Shattering Spree



  • I had a good Workshops matchup with my list, the Sulfur Elementals were in my board.



  • How's the mindslaver working out for you?



  • @AmbivalentDuck I like it. At worst it's a bomb that they have to FOW. At best you go infinite with welder + darretti.



  • Slaver vs a Gush deck with Chains in play is brutal.



  • @Serracollector chains is brutal in this meta. I think this goblins deck has potential. It runs a lot like the 5c control decks but instead of using workshops to cheat out fatties, you have lackey. You basically have better tutoring and explosiveness than the shops deck but less consistency. I guess not being hit by artifact hate is a plus (although right now Ballista and STP is at an all time high).



  • As silly as this might sound, I'm actually not sure that the deck still needs Lackey/Matron/Incinerator. Chains shuts down whole archetypes. Some combination of a relevant Rogue and Welders should be plenty? Dack + Welder + Null Rod seems like a huge problem for artifact-based decks.



  • @AmbivalentDuck I can definitely see it working without Lackey. Not sure how I feel about no Matron though, as the tutoring has been pretty relevant. If we do get rid of the lackey, I can see us making a case for something like Sundering titan to give more of a stax feel.



  • 4 Lackey could be Duress/Thoughtseize/Mental Misstep?

    It feels the need for some form of protection.



  • I'm not sure. It seems like the strongest line of attack against you is actually just huge critters and Walking Ballista/Ravager effects. Some combination of protection from removal and Krenko is likely the way to go.



  • So, God Pharaoh's Gift is now a thing. All of your dead stuff comes back as hasty 4/4s, which is a pretty big deal, and you get the ETB triggers. I'm pretty sure that's better than Mindslaver.



  • @AmbivalentDuck serious question, what do you think about Gate to the Afterlife?



  • @Brass-Man Seems like a rough grind to get six critters into your graveyard. If you're playing Gobs, it's for the Dack, Welder, Chains, and Earwig Squad package. Tinker for Gift lets any dead Welders and Matrons come back at a size Shops can't ignore. I might be thinking about that entirely wrong and maybe it's better just to board into something like Paradoxical Outcome since most Shops players will board out their Thorns after seeing a bunch of goblins game 1.



  • Anyone have any plans to revisit this archtype? It seems the meta has changed significantly and we may or may not be better positioned? Mentor got restricted so we no longer have to worry about playing terrible cards to try to get around it (sharpshooter/sulfur elemental). However Oath is now extremely popular so we may be forced to play x4 Grafdigger's Cage and/or Leyline of Sanctity or splash white for containment priest. The new shops builds can give us trouble with Walking Ballista; however Null Rod shuts down Ravager/Ballista pretty hard and I feel like we have the ability to swarm the field and win vs Ravager Shops is straight creature combat.



  • Does anyone actually actively play this tribe? What does a current List look like? A friend of mine that seems intersted in Vintage, but isn't as committed, is already playing Legacy Goblins, and this might just be a fine budged entry for him



  • @aelien right now there seems to be 2 schools of thought. The first is a “value” goblin type that is r/b and runs ring leader as a card advantage engine along with a ton of creatures. Basically closer to the legacy versions only instead of vial, you have moxen/simian spirit guides. It can also run skull clamp for card draw. The second build is more of a grixis control deck that runs ancestral recall, time walk, tinker, and dack along with powerful targets like mindslaver/wurmcoil engine to abuse welder.

    They’re both fun but have flaws. The first build ends up relying on syngergy and playing individually bad cards hoping for them to mesh together in a format where stand-alone threats are ungodly efficient. The second build plays like either a slightly worse grixis control deck or slightly worse welder-shops deck. However both builds are REALLY fun and fun is what vintage should be about. I prefer the second build personally.



  • @naixin intersting. Is a an unpowered Null Rod build possible? Rod is the first thing I usually think about when talking about tribal Decks in Vintage. Are goblins just too expensive to miss out on artifact power?


 

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