Goblins, an Undervalued Tribe in Vintage



  • I think with this version of the deck, multiple Recruiters would be a great idea. Allowing us to stack our deck is a solid plan against the field. I can see cutting a Gempalm for one, what else could you guys see cutting for more Recruiters?



  • What two mana play is so good that you want to Duress yourself with SSG? You aren't running null rod or chalice is the RR on Warchief the only reason to play them over Moxes? Or lands really, you have very few mana producing lands for a deck going to "4". Wasteland and Strip Mine have some tension as mana producers.



  • @nedleeds said:

    What two mana play is so good that you want to Duress yourself with SSG? You aren't running null rod or chalice is the RR on Warchief the only reason to play them over Moxes? Or lands really, you have very few mana producing lands for a deck going to "4". Wasteland and Strip Mine have some tension as mana producers.

    The Simian Spirit Guides are great as Mana early game or beaters later on. I prefer the versatility to off color moxen.



  • So after cutting an Incinerator to fit in a second Recruiter, because stacking your deck is a pretty powerful effect in Vintage, I realized I needed better cards in my board for Eldrazi. I started with cutting the Pyrostatic Pillars because Storm is such a small part of the meta I don't need to dedicate that much board specifically for them. In their place I put the fourth Stingscourger and 3 Dismember. Then I wanted some permanent form to deal with them, so I was toying with 3 Bloodmark Mentor, because First Strike is very good against Eldrazi. Then it hit me, if I play Blood Moon, I stop them from casting Eldrazi, so Stingscourger is an actual removal spell against them. So I cut 2 of the Bloodmark Mentors and a Sulfur Elemental to play 3 Blood Moon in my board. To accommodate for Blood Moon I switched my Badlands in the main for a basic Swamp. So far I'm really liking this plan and I really think its going to go the distance for me.



  • Hi Guys!

    Yesterday I played goblins in the yearly local tournament "The Cave Open". We were 9 players and I got crushed. This is what I played:

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    2 Skullclamp

    1 Demonic Consultation
    4 Cabal Therapy

    4 Goblin Lackey
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Goblin Welder
    3 Tin-Street Hooligan
    2 Stingscourger
    2 Goblin Recruiter
    4 Goblin Matron
    2 Goblin Sharpshooter
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Earwig Squad

    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Badlands
    1 Bayou
    1 Mountain
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine

    SB:
    4 Grafdiggers Cage
    4 Surgical Extraction
    1 Goblin Welder
    1 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Tin-Street Hooligan
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Goblin King
    1 Murderous Redcap

    After some testing I decided to add one welder to the main to lower the curve, bring in 2 lords in the side for engineered plague protection and to go on top of aggro decks, add sol ring because the deck is just that mana hungry and control players will often counter the first mox, and add an incinerator to the toolbox of removal. If I were to play the deck again today, I would switch out a sharpshooter from the main for the incinerator: The sharpshooter was too slow and too fragile against mentor specifically, while incinerator was quite good. These were my matches:

    1-2 against esper control
    He got a quick tinker for sphinx of the steel wind game 1. I sided out clamps, demonic consultation, 1 sharpshooter (he has some creatures) and a couple of ringleaders to bring in lords, welder and 3 surgical extraction. In the second game, I lobotomized him with earwig, extraction and therapy and went to town. The third game was long and interactive despite him resolving an early engineered plague, but he ended up killing me with a true name nemesis before I could build up a large enough force.

    1-1 against bomberman
    He comboed out after a long and convoluted game 1. In game two, I extracted and earwigged. In game 3, he had no reasonable avenues to win left, but I couldnt clock him quick enough to finish the game.

    2-0 against white eldrazi
    He had played ancient tomb, plains, mox emerald and a hate bear (thalia maybe). I blind named reality smasher with cabal therapy and got two of them, emptying his hand. I proceded to hooligan and wasteland him back to the stone age and take over the game. Game two went long and I ended up vomiting 20 power of goblins onto the board and shooting all is creatures with sharpshooter.

    0-2 against blue combo control (helm of awakening, future sight)
    I earwigged him too late in game one and he was able to draw his library and deck me. In game two I earwigged him twice, removing all his reasonable win-cons and felt in control of the game. He however had a sweepers followed by two trinket mages, I drew 5 consecutive non-creature cards (lands and useless therapies) and he dealt me 16 damage (I think); enough to kill me. Crazy game.

    1-2 against UWR mentor
    He blew me out with a quick mentor followed by plowing sharpshooter game one. Game two I opted to incinerate his first mentor and played enough ringleaders and beatsticks to overpower the second. In game 3 he surprise blocked my lackey with containment priest and plowed my sharpshooter again. The mentor deck went undefeated to win the tourney.

    Im not at all surprised by being run over like this. The deck has game against everything and I am sure it is well built by now, but the power level is not high enough. I still had a blast though. If anyone wants to try the list, make the mentioned swap of incinerator for the second sharpshooter. The decks I didnt play against were oath, UR pyromancer and elves. I believe all 3 are favorable match-ups. (I played some matches against the pyromancer and elves decks after the tourney and only lost one game to the elves player).



  • The new Daretti looks sweet. Maybe a goblin deck abusing that + welder + mindslaver can work?



  • @Naixin for Goblins, I was more impressed with new Grenzo, as he can single handedly create a ton of advantage by stealing all your opponents cards.



  • Leveraging the new Grenzo would take a major rebuild. Swarming the board isn't a great strategy for Vintage since so many decks can outright ignore it. It's not even clear to make that Grenzo having the critter type Goblin merits having other Goblins in the deck with him. He clearly belongs in a deck that runs Plateau and/or Volcanic Island.



  • After recent discussion, i've realized the new Daretti is more cute than effective, but I will still try it. However, I really like the direction @AmbivalentDuck has gone with the deck in making it more toolsboxy.

    However, I am still curious as to what the Ringleader card-advantage side of folks are brewing. Anyone have any updated lists? I tried the new Grenzo but I found it underwhelming.



  • @Naixin At some point I'll get around to updating the Dack goblins thread.



  • Artifact: 10
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Chalice of the Void
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Trinisphere

    Creature: 26
    2 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Rabblemaster
    1 Goblin Settler
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Moggcatcher
    1 Murderous Redcap
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    Enchantment: 4
    4 Blood Moon

    Land:20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 City of Traitors
    8 Mountain

    SB: 15
    4 Ingot Chewer
    1 Shattering Spree
    2 Sulfur Elemental
    4 Thorn of Amthyst
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Tormod's Crypt

    Current draft of a Goblin stompy deck based off of the legacy version. Wins with moon effects and random beats. Pretty fun.



  • So right now I think the best "goblins" deck is a red shops deck with 4 Goblin Welders :( I've been playing different goblin builds and they all seem to fall flat to mentor or shops. Sure, I can tune it to beat mentor but I lose to shops, or vice versa.

    Anyone else have better luck?



  • I had the same problem last time playing elves, which shares some similarities. Mentor and pyromancer have the same advantages that tribal decks have, but their ability to control the game is much bigger. Combo decks are faster than you. And control decks have evolved to be effective against creatures. Not a good time to be in the tribal side of the road.



  • @xouman yeah. I'm taking another look at goblins now. With how heavy mentor decks are, a good earwig squad can cripple them. The issue now is that ballista is bad news. I might do some maindeck null rods. Overall, I think the issue with goblins is that you live or die by your opening 7 in the same vein as shops, workshop is much easier to be impactful with than a lackey.



  • When I was Testing Goblins, Mentor was my worst matchup, but I think if built properly, can be very good against them. I think Goblin Sharpshooter should be a 4 Of alongside a set of Sulfur Elemental, this means every time they cast a spell, they take one point of damage for every Sharpshooter you have in play. Multiple Sharpshooter in play also help against Dredge, eating all zombie tokens. Another sideboard card I think that would help against Mentor is Blood Moon.



  • @msg67183 the issue with that is it makes you really soft to shops. I updated my current list to reflect how I feel about the metagame (mainly changed mental misstep from the SB to null rod since PO storm > DP storm atm).

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 11 Artifact
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mindslaver

    // 18 Creature
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Earwig Squad
    3 Goblin Welder
    1 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Wurmcoil Engine

    // 3 Enchantment
    3 Chains of Mephistopheles

    // 4 Instant
    1 Demonic Consultation
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Ancient Grudge

    // 17 Land
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 Badlands
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Mana Confluence
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Bloodstained Mire

    // 3 Planeswalker
    2 Dack Fayden
    1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

    // 4 Sorcery
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Tinker
    1 Yawgmoth's Will

    // 15 Sideboard
    // 4 Artifact
    SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 Null Rod

    // 9 Creature
    SB: 3 Containment Priest
    SB: 1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
    SB: 2 Ingot Chewer
    SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter

    // 1 Instant
    SB: 1 Ancient Grudge

    // 1 Sorcery
    SB: 1 Shattering Spree



  • I had a good Workshops matchup with my list, the Sulfur Elementals were in my board.



  • How's the mindslaver working out for you?



  • @AmbivalentDuck I like it. At worst it's a bomb that they have to FOW. At best you go infinite with welder + darretti.



  • Slaver vs a Gush deck with Chains in play is brutal.


 

WAF/WHF

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.