What about some number (1?) of tasigur?

Thrashing Brontoson is tech. Has anyone tried Anvil of Bogardan? Or is it too risky?

@wfain At some point I'm going to step away from the path my iterations have been taking me and just use your 75 in a league. It hasn't happened yet, but sometime soon!

@john-cox I have a build I've been brainstorming that drifts closer to a Vintage interpretation of Modern's Hollow One decks. It runs the Faithless Looting, Survival and Bazaar engines, but goes very heavy red to support Flamewake Phoenix. That deck, in order to get more 4-power creatures, runs Hooting Mandrills as a Delve threat. If you want Delve threats the on-color guy seems best. Vengevine has proved that 4/3 is good enough, so the Mandrills as a 4/4 shouldn't be significantly worse than Tasigur's 4/5.

@hierarchnoble you know what might go a long way in that shops matchup? Tarmogoyf 🤷🏻♂

@hierarchnoble goyf is, in fact, good in the shops matchup.

obviously the correct silver bullet vs shops is to survival down an anger and a bane of progress, the play and activate apprentice/doomed necromancer

I’m getting close to having something I’m really happy with. I think I might have 58-59/60 correct. The 15 is another story entirely. For some reason I’m having trouble being good against both Shops and Outcome after board- seems like the overlap should be there but I’m finding it isn’t. I’ll post something tomorrow with the list.

Is Dack Fayden too slow?

last edited by John Cox

@wfain Damping Sphere? Workshop taps for 1, PO/storm can't go off. 2 mana, one card :). Null rod, of course, is also solid at hitting both deck types and more.

@thewhitedragon69 have tried sphere- not so good. Too slow vs shops and you don’t want artifacts against Outcome, they already play hurkyl

@john-cox Dack Fayden’s mana requirement is horrible in the GRx builds and impossible in my red-less build. Relying on non-basics exclusively for a secondary and tertiary color against a Wasteland deck doesn’t work out. I wish it could since Dack is just Faithless Lootings for life.

Manglehorn is very good versus aggro mud and PO. Agrro mud gets tapped blockers and PO gets Mana hosed.

Manglehorn is intruiging. I tried loading up on thalias main, null rod and mindbreak traps Sb, and still got hosed by outcome. They are both faster than us and can pivot around hate cards with tinker or mentor. Maybe ive been unlucky, but still seems pretty minus as a matchup. Leo seems a little too slow and kambal is probably the same and also hard to cast, but I might try him in a hate bears tilted list.

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