Mono-Red, Hated Stepchild?



  • @gkraigher By Force seems like a logical fit in this list! So I guess the question here is, would there be some solid heuristics you’d recommend for mulligan decisions with this deck based on matchup?

    Also, I guess I reach for something like Metamorph because nothing here really looks like it’s wonderful against T2 inferno titan/griselbrand in game one, except maxing out on Bridge. Also,

    How fast do you usually kill when you’ve got your lock established? It seems about as fast if not a little faster than landstill.

    Was there a consensus on whether or not Eidolon is actually garbage in this deck, Hanweir Garrison categorically more deisreable?



  • @bandswithothers

    Inferno Titan is a problem for the deck, especially if you don’t have a bridge. It’s a real threat because it can be cast under blood moon. I’ve lost to it before. But metamorphing it doesn’t necessarily accomplish the goal of killing it. Because metamorph is always an artifact it’s more fragile. It can even be stolen by Dack! Interestingly, the most useful part of phyrexian metamorph would be to exile bridge from below in graveyards.

    As for heuristics on hands, it changes dramatically for each opponent. Generally you need some hate piece, and mulliganing to get at least one is important for most matchups. Keeping a hand of Rabblemasters generally won’t get there. Especially if you don’t know what your opponent is on.

    In game 1 vs an unknown opponent, you are looking for an early blood moon. If you have a combination of moon and artifact hate, your hand is great. If you only have Artifact hate, it’s probably not a keep. However, if I had a hand where I could cast both Chandra and then plus it into null rod on turn 1, that is a snap keep. Chandra is your best threat, because it also draws lots of cards and an early one can kill relevant creatures. Most turn 1 Chanda hands are keeps.

    I haven’t tested Eidolon, but I don’t know how it would be better than more blasts or mental misstep vs combo lists. It’s defiantly a nonbo with ensnaring bridge; think about eidolon and bridge game 1 vs MUD. You could lock them out and lose to your own cards!

    Killing your opponent is an interesting process. I don’t know how Eidolon fits in with the plan. It can be faster than hanoweir garrison, potentially. It can also be a lot slower. Once you’ve established control, Fiery Confluence 6 damage, Chandra, and your creatures can get the job done in a relatively fast manner.



  • I'm surprised to hear Prophetic Flamespeaker isn't good enough. Does it not connect very much? 2 extra cards per turn should be back breaking.



  • @dr-j

    It doesn’t connect very often. If there was some way to give it more power, it would potentially be playable.



  • @gkraigher Some lists run Viashino Heretic, which looks like a decent hedge against shops? It feels a little slow compared to I donno...Shatter...but the extra damage, and the 1/3 body mean that it can hold off a revoker. Worth running at all in the main?

    So reaching out to the more experienced pilot, what are the hardest scenarios to deal with here? It seems like T1 Fetch --> Basic island ; T1 Workshop, Mox ---> Revoker on Chandra --> Ravager ; T1 Orchard, Mox --> Oath can be a real challenge (I know, no kidding), when this deck doesn't have the snap answers that hatebear type decks can pack.

    I love the flavor and variety of what red is doing here, and Blood Moon is just such a beating when it's working, but I guess as I play this deck against others in a gauntlet, I find that it's slim on answers in game one and being so draw dependent means that having a plan is critical. Plus there's never a moment where the deck "goes off" but is sort of hoping that the blood moon, null rod, bridge lock holds long enough for us to Rabble them to death. In any case, the flex slots where Hanoweir Garrison might not be an auto-include or 4 of. There's so much jank out there in red you'd think there'd be just the right thing somewhere...

    Earlier you mentioned Misstep, is that a thing here?

    Thanks for all suggestions and help!



  • Wizards just crushed this decklist. I can not believe it. I thought they would errata each card to be exactly how it was before the rules change in damage, but they have instead left anything that dealt damage to an opponent only off.

    It seems totally without merit that Chandra torch and fiery confluence can no longer kill planeswalkers.

    I’m at a total loss. This is a terrible development. Who do you contact at the DCI to have things like this at the very least reviewed.



  • @gkraigher said in Mono-Red, Hated Stepchild?:

    fiery confluence

    The problem, as Wizards sees it, is that you want to change a non-targeting card to a targeting card, raising a new host of interactions.



  • @gkraigher I agree with you here. I built a solid Blue Moon deck with a lot of these cards and now they do not interact with the meta-game correctly.


  • TMD Supporter

    @gkraigher This is very similar to things like "damage no longer uses the stack" some cards got better, many many cards got worse (Mogg Fanatic your reign was too brief).



  • @garbageaggro That is a great analogy. I remember opening plays of Mishra's Workshop, Sphere of Resistance, burn for 1, go. It'll take some time for enfranchised players to accept change, but it isn't changing back anytime soon.


 

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