Blue Brew no more Blue Stew
-
@jonhammack Is Steel City playable? Maybe a new deck with the new Karn?
-
@moorebrother1 Depends on your definition of playable!
It's another version of the all in combo deck (akin to paradoxical, IMO) but at the end of the day its a worse version of paradoxical. -
@jonhammack That's a fair assessment.
-
I think there is a kess deck that isn't well explored yet as to what the best version is that is either leaned more toward value or combo depending on composition. I have tested a little with a couple different versions and it is powerful and doesn't require the use of all the cantrips and the standard fair.
The other fun brew-y deck that i played recently that in particular is pretty good against shops is Punishing Fire + Thing in the Ice deck I played at a TSI. The deck was a little slow and could use some tweaking, but aside from playing against pure combo, it felt like it kept up with the format. I would look at interactions like that, that seem powerful in other formats, and build around them, if i were looking to build something different and blue.
-
@garbageaggro Thanks for the advice. I have been piecing together info from the different threads that I have started and I think Dragon or the Kess deck or some type of blue deck with a reanimator kill can work.
The hate for graveyard is not being directed at blue and if you can run Hurkyl's Recall for protection against Shops and Paradoxical Outcome then you can race the other blue decks.
I am piecing together a Blue Moon deck but it is starting to look like the rest of the blue stew out there.
I consider this to be true innovator's dilemma.
-
What about a Sensei's Top based UWB control deck? Moat with Mystical/Vamp + terminus and entreat...
-
@darkquarterer OP wanted to "stop playing crap like Mental Misstep". Jamming 1 mana sorcery speed investments into free, without being able to Misstep the Misstep is a losing proposition over a long event.
-
You want to play Misstep because it pairs well with FoW and card draw, which is what blue does. You want to be able to tap out to draw cards and still be able to interact. Even if you don’t play Preordain or delve spells, which is something I’ve done 95% of the time, you still want Mental Missteps.
-
I have found kess + whatever cards to be fun. THe other deck that has had some success in legacy is a thieves + punishing fire one. I couldn't find many examples of decks like that in various vintage dbs but i think there is enough power there to handle creatures in these format that it could be worthwhile.
-
Playing on MTGO I found that Paradoxical Mentor does not need Mental Misstep but it does need Flusterstorm. The issue is playing Grixis, Esper, or Jeskai do require Mental Missteps for a variety of reasons, but mostly because they are Xerox decks. I see that LandStill plays them and I do not know why since that card hurts the synergy of what you want to accomplish. I guess it protects the factories.
I can see a Blue Moon deck or a Black Blue deck that can get around the Mental Misstep blue stew crap but it takes a lot of work and innovation.
The new Karn paired with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas may provide a path for Black Blue but you have to play discard spells since you do not have access to 4 Chalice of the Void. Maybe Collective Brutality can help with a Lilianna?
The Blue Moon deck can play like a Paradoxical Deck and play through the Mental Missteps or play like an old school Fish deck with some clever creatures similar to the new Brian Kelly BUG deck.
I am looking at Baral, Chief or Compliance. The issue is card draw over card filter. Gift Ungiven is good if you can play it like UR Storm in Modern or how it used to be played back in 2003 but that is very hard to pull off.
-
@moorebrother1
If you play Baral, you have to play Mental Misstep to not only gain the looting ability but to also protect him from Plows and Bolts...
-
If I were to play Baral it would be as a 4 of in something that started along the lines of:
X Mana Leak
X Nights Whisper
X Negate
XMidirectionThen go from there. Collective Brutality could def work, as well as 4 Cabal Ritual if your talking a storm style build. And in a deck like that Paradoxical Outcome is probably better than gifts.
-
@serracollector said in Blue Brew no more Blue Stew:
And in a deck like that Paradoxical Outcome is probably better than gifts.
In what way? Baral has synergy with spells that have zero interaction with Outcome...
Also with a deck built on 2 drops that are normally just bad cards like Mana Leak, all they have to do is deal with Baral and your deck won’t compete. (Part of the reason of why Misstep is essential in a Baral deck)
-
Because a deck running 4 Baral, Nights Whisper, and Mana Leak would obv also run the full suite of Moxen, Crypt, etc to help ensure one of those spells is castable turn 1. And 3 mana Paradoxical for even 3 cards is better on Average than a 3 mana gifts that your using for CA. Im not gonna argue over which card is better, but in a list of 2 drops, you want as much mana accel as you can get, which mainly comes in the form of zero cost artifacts, which would make Paradoxical Outcome better in said list.
-
I don't want to be nitpicky but you may be undervaluing Gifts here. A 3 mana Gifts with a Baral in play is probably a kill, depending on the game state. I wouldn't imagine wanting a 3-card Outcome over it. Once you start drawing 5 or 6 cards and rebuying your mana, the Outcome starts to get more appealing. Your point still stands if you're talking about a deck that can consistently put a lot of artifacts in play, but at lower counts I'm pretty sure the Gifts is going to be better.
-
Oh no arguments here, I understand that Gifts can easily be GG in the correct shell, I was just thinking of a Outcome shell, rocking Baral, Whispers, and Cabal Rituals to Tendrils out.
-
I have been brewing and I have my try at a Blue Moon deck with no "stew"
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Pyroblast
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Flusterstorm
3 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Young Pyromancer
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Blood Moon
2 Fiery COnfluence
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
2 Preordain
5 Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Mounain
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip MineWorking on sideboard
I know this is not revolutionary, but I purposely cut Dack and Mental Misstep. I am going to try this out and see what happens. -
@moorebrother1 I played Blue Moon at EW last fall and I would say that Consecrated Sphinx is a must-have. I'm not sure if Sphinx of the Final Word can claw you back from being behind, but Consecrated Sphinx definitely will in a single draw step.
I would also cut the second Mountain — I don't think you'd ever want to see double Mountain in your opener.
-
@qq thanks for the advice. After testing, one of the delver spells has to go. Without Dack it is hard to maintain both. I have to consider Gush too.
-
So, I finally go around to testing this on MTGO. It works well against creature decks and Shops. There are issues with Dredge mainly because I need Grafdiggers cage on the board and I'm too cheap to buy them. My unexpected foe was Combo. I keep losing to combo. I decide to put Mental Misstep and Dack Fayden on the sideboard against combo and this is helping quite a bit.
Any advice for a Blue Moon deck vs Combo would be great!
