Vintage Lands



  • intuition for loam + targets (or triple exploration effect) seems better than realms uncharted by far and still doesn't make the cut.

    I assume the mana just doesn't support tolaria west? riftstone portal is just the wrong colors for it.



  • @serracollector said in Vintage Lands:

    Its not just a double Entomb tho, its 2 in hand (that a majority of the time both can be played) and a double Entomb as you put it. I personally would try 1 Realms over 1 Ancient Grudge in that list, and just see how it works out. If Im wrong and its garbage, that is fine, but I think it will be very useful in a lot of scenerios.

    Ancient Grudge needs to be a 3-of minimum. Realms Uncharted doesn't solve the problem Ancient Grudge solves against decks relying heavily on artifacts and especially artifact mana. Ancient Grudge is vital both as a way of taking out Workshop's creatures directly or taking them out indirectly by destroying the mana they'd use to pay for The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Realms Uncharted also does nothing to speed up our clock or slow down the clock of Paradoxical decks. Taking them off one mana source during the casting of Paradoxical Outcome, especially Mox Opal, nets them one less card and possibly the mana to chain multiple together. Hitting Time Vault after Voltaic Key targets it is wonderful too. I wish I had room in the maindeck or sideboard for the 4th Ancient Grudge, but I need to hit other permanent types. My hope is always that Null Rod functions as the 4th Ancient Grudge when it matters.



  • As a nitpick, Realms Uncharted probably does speed up the deck's clock, by getting both halves of Depths/Stage or whatever other piece you're missing. (Intuition would do the same thing but also grab a Life from the Loam or 3 Ancient Grudge which is real exciting, but not every lands deck can support blue spells.)

    Still I don't like the idea of cutting Grudge over it. I'm not even sure I like the idea of running only 3 Grudge. If you're not steamrolling all of your Workshop opponents, playing this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.



  • @brass-man Realms only speeds you up if you already have Loam though. I didn't remember Intuition but boy does it look great if you can reliably pay U.



  • @brass-man You're absolutely right. I guess when I was writing that I was comparing more to Crop Rotation and the Fastbond effects of the deck, which get cards from library->battlefield and hand->battlefield rather than the library->graveyard of Realms Uncharted. You'll still need the core Life from the Loam to get a real payoff. You could make a point that Realms Uncharted is also library->hand, but when that's for the third and fourth best tutor option it doesn't seem as important or relevant. We can't depend on our opponent misplaying as a strategic strength of Realms Uncharted.



  • @fsecco I'm not against trying to find a GU configuration. At this point my current list only runs red for Ancient Grudge, having ditched the Punishing Fire post-board long ago due to the liability of Grove of the Burnwillows with the Marit Lage kill. Having to cast too many Loams against blue with it and suddenly they're at 21 and you need to swing twice, opening Marit Lage up to Jace, the Mind Sculptor and such. Ancient Grudge is one hell of a card, though, but so are Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Intuition, Academy Ruins and possibly Tolaria West.



  • Years ago at a Vintage Champs I played a deck I called Crime and Punishment. I ran Intuition to grab Life from the Loam + Strip Mine + Raven's Crime. The deck was very strong in testing but went like 0-20 in tournament matches that weekend :D



  • I could see Grove/Fire getting the axe due to the 21 liability, though PFire seems like the most resilient way to end Planeswalkers though.

    Thoughts on using the tiny bit of black in the manabase for a MD Demonic Tutor? Seems pretty decent in any match that you'd likely bring Decays in for.



  • @hierarchnoble Blue also has Cephalid Coliseum which seems cool. Maybe even Academy Ruins to get those Null Rods after dredging them with Loam.



  • Blue also has Search for Azcanta possibly? Helps find Loam and fuel it. Sorry if my suggestions are off base, I just really like this archetype and love innovations.



  • I play RGu in legacy, the main reason for the blue splash is academy ruins and engineered explosives.

    EE seems great in vintage too



  • @hierarchnoble

    This is spot on. Realms uncharted may theoretically be intriguing, but there are numerous cards that the deck is already not playing that are far better.

    If you want a faster clock -> Crop Rotation
    If you want a 3 mana multi card tutor -> Intuition
    If you simply want a good tutor -> Gamble

    These are 3 very clear better cards that serve a similar function and are borderline playable in the deck.



  • @vaughnbros said in Vintage Lands:

    @hierarchnoble

    This is spot on. Realms uncharted may theoretically be intriguing, but there are numerous cards that the deck is already not playing that are far better.

    If you want a faster clock -> Crop Rotation
    If you want a 3 mana multi card tutor -> Intuition
    If you simply want a good tutor -> Gamble

    These are 3 very clear better cards that serve a similar function and are borderline playable in the deck.

    I'm really surprised no one has mentioned gifts ungiven in this discussion.



  • @john-cox isn't gifts just even slower intuition/realms uncharted in this deck?



  • its similar to realms uncharted but can find loam or another non land card.


 

WAF/WHF

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.