Grixis Therapy deck discussion



  • Hello everyone, for a month or two i've been playing grixis in vintage and am having trouble fine tuning the deck. I'm not sure if a more combo approach is necessary, if i should be a grindy deck, or a mix of both. what i'm wanting out of the deck is to be explosive but if the game drags on, i have the ability to grind the opponent out. I want to be able to play a tempo game with removal and counters, and have a combo if i can. I have a basic shell in mind, but i need help filling the rest of the deck out. Am i trying to do to much? Do i need to either go combo or go tempo? Or do i need to take the deck in an entirely different direction? so far the shell i have is as follows:

    3 young pyromancer
    3 gitaxian probe
    1 brainstorm
    1 ponder
    1 ancestral recall
    4 gush
    2 lightning bolt
    1 sudden shock
    4 force of will
    3 mental misstep
    2 flusterstorm
    1 time walk
    2 dack fayden
    3 cabal therapy
    1 black lotus
    1 mox jet
    1 mox ruby
    1 mox sapphire
    4 scalding tarn
    3 flooded strand
    3 volcanic island
    2 underground sea
    1 island

    that leaves 12-11 flex slots for the deck, one of which needs to be a land.

    i've been thinking of a few directions to take the deck, on of them is a gush combo type of strategy which would add the following
    1 yawgmoths will
    1 fastbond
    1 tropical island
    1 mox emerald
    1 demonic tutor
    1 vampiric tutor
    1 merchant scroll
    1 mystical tutor
    1 empty the warrens
    1 treasure cruise
    1 dig through time

    and then that leaves one more slot i'm not sure what to do with, it could be a snapcaster or a jace or something to that nature.

    another direction i thought about taking the deck is a grindy version of the deck which would add

    4 preordain
    1 library of alexandria or an island
    2 snapcaster mage
    1 lightning bolt
    1 mental misstep
    1 gitaxian probe
    1 young pyromancer

    I've also thought of a few build that is in between which adds

    1 yawgmoth's will
    1 fastbond
    4 preordain
    1 demonic tutor
    1 vampiric tutor
    1 merchant scroll
    1 mystical tutor
    1 tropical island

    yeah i'm not sure what build i should go with and what direction to take this deck. i'm sorry for writing so much, i'm just trying to explain my thought process and what i want from the deck. so what does everyone think, what is the best build i should go with, am i wanting the deck to do to much at once, should i go with an entirely different build? also as a note i'm not wanting to play delver of secrets, i don't like the card in vintage, and im not wanting to play the mentor decks, to me delver isnt enough and mentor is a little too slow for my taste. so let me know what you guys think, any help is appreciated. If anyone wants to see the sideboard let me know and ill make an edit, again im sorry for making this so long and thank you all for the help.



  • @letseeker

    Take out all the bolts (lodestone is gone) and sideboard the sudden shock. You are underpowered vs. mentor, so having a combo element is likely the best approach, - you can still kill them out of nowhere even if mentor has board dominance. I like the gush-fastbond package you got there. JVP is great in a fastbond gush deck, as it allows you to flashback gush when you're comboing off. empty seems sweet, though maybe tendril might just be better? Not sure. I can also see not playing those cards, because I hate dead cards that don't do anything on their own (and space is REALLY tight in this list) Here's my list:

    4 young pyromancer
    2 jace, vyrn's prodigy
    4 gitaxian probe
    3 preordain
    1 brainstorm
    1 ponder
    1 ancestral recall
    4 gush
    4 force of will
    4 mental misstep
    2 flusterstorm
    1 time walk
    1 dack fayden
    2 cabal therapy
    1 yawgmoths will
    1 fastbond
    1 demonic tutor
    1 vampiric tutor
    1 merchant scroll
    1 treasure cruise
    1 dig through time
    1 empty/tendril

    1 black lotus
    1 mox jet
    1 mox ruby
    1 mox sapphire
    4 scalding tarn
    3 flooded strand
    2 volcanic island
    2 underground sea
    1 island
    1 tropical island
    1 library of alexandria

    SB:
    2 ingot chewer (shops / storm for defense grid)
    3 ancient grudge (shops)
    1 hurkyl's recall (shops)
    2 sudden shock (mentor)
    2 abrupt decay (mentor / oath)
    1 Ravenous Trap (dredge)
    2 Yixid Jailer (dredge)
    1 Gradigger's Cage (dredge / oath)
    1 Cabal Therapy (storm / oath)

    In terms of matchups, you should destroy storm and other random combo decks, have a pretty even matchup vs. mentor (assuming you're boarding in 2-3 sudden shocks vs. mentor) and probably get pwned by workshop so definitely have 2-3 chewers and 3 ancient grudges and at least 1 hurkyl in the sb (can be tutored).



  • @hankzhong funnily enough, shops has been a great matchup, mentor is good, and storm a bad match up. is it not worth keeping in a few bolts for the mentor decks? i just have always liked having a few removal spells in the board. ill try out your list, ive never tried JVP before as it honestly always looked weak on paper, maybe its better than i think im not sure. my side board is
    4 ingot chewer (shops and i bring in two against dredge to take care of bridges)
    2 mindbreak trap(storm and other blue decks)
    1 flusterstorm(same reason as above)
    3 grafdiggers cage (oath and dredge)
    2 ravenous trap (dredge)
    2 surgical extraction (dredge and storm)
    1 ancient grudge (shops)

    im not as woried about shops as that has always been a good matchup but as you said, lodestone is banned so that matchup will more than likely change. as i said ill test your deck out.


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