Workshop is a pillar of vintage -Aaron Forsythe



  • @chubbyrain said in Workshop is a pillar of vintage -Aaron Forsythe:

    Thanks, Aaron...

    0_1524050958834_824b8544-8adb-407a-adc4-70653c742d18-image.png

    The death of paper Vintage won't be from a restriction or an unrestriction, but from the secondary market.

    paper vintage can and should be free



  • you are not your dci number
    embrace the proxy



  • @mediumsteve I do not need Wizard's to sanction my fun. :)



  • @cutlex That's the issue though. It is probably speculators and collectors, who now think that their investment is 'safe' because Workshops is a pillar, similar to the speculation on reserved list cards. This is an increase in the price of Shops that means fewer people will be playing it in sanctioned events. At champs or SCG, it makes very little sense to target shops and a lot more sense to just play the deck if you are able.



  • @chubbyrain Eh, it's not just workshops. go look at the price of an Underground Sea.





  • @chubbyrain said in Workshop is a pillar of vintage -Aaron Forsythe:

    Thanks, Aaron...

    0_1524050958834_824b8544-8adb-407a-adc4-70653c742d18-image.png

    The death of paper Vintage won't be from a restriction or an unrestriction, but from the secondary market.

    One thing to consider is that this is not 100% Aaron's fault. Workshop was unbanned in MTGO Commander and that may affect paper prices as a lot of people follow MTGO rules for competitive play.



  • Even if Aaron saying that workshop is a "pillar" led to a price increase, that's not Aaron's fault either. That's all on the secondary market. You could argue that his action indirectly led to the price increase, but it's his job to maintain the format, not to keep prices within a certain range.



  • @fsecco said in Workshop is a pillar of vintage -Aaron Forsythe:

    One thing to consider is that this is not 100% Aaron's fault. Workshop was unbanned in MTGO Commander and that may affect paper prices as a lot of people follow MTGO rules for competitive play.

    The unban was MTGO 1v1 Commander only. Mishra's Workshop was already unbanned in paper.



  • @hierarchnoble Agreed. Not only that, but I think demand for Workshops and Timetwister can always grow and outpace more and more power, as they are legal in even casual EDH.



  • @fisken I am all for letting those dogs off the leash to see what would happen, but using that as a way to show the importance of workshop WITHOUT also unrestricting chalice, golem, and thorn is misleading. I am all for restricting workshop. I think 1 MWS + 4x chalice, 4x thorn, 4x golem is not oppressive but still good. The fish/eldrazi decks that would be good need 4x chalice and 4x sphere. Many people would like to see MWS restricted...nobody in their right mind would advocate for its restriction without a simultaneous unrestriction of the lock pieces.

    Your suggestion is akin to saying "Unrestrict ancestral and time walk and see how oppressive blue gets...that proves we need MWS!!!"



  • @thewhitedragon69 said in Workshop is a pillar of vintage -Aaron Forsythe:

    ...nobody in their right mind would advocate for its restriction without a simultaneous unrestriction of the lock pieces.

    I think a simultaneous unrestriction would be a poor choice. If Chalice/Lodestone came back and Shops's meta share didn't change, we wouldn't have learned anything and it'd have been a pointless trade. If you wanna restrict Workshop, do that, see what happens, and then decide if something needs to be unrestricted.



  • @stuart The only way that would work is if WotC decided to test the waters in phases - try Vintage sans both workshop and lock pieces, if that doesn't work, try it sans just the workshops, and if THAT doesn't work, you already know what the format looks like with JUST workshop as well as what it LOOKED like with both MWS and the lock pieces.

    If you try it WITH the lock pieces and WITHOUT MWS simultaneously and the sky doesn't fall, then you certainly did learn something - that the format can be stable without MWS.

    But that "progressive steps" approach won't happen. You know what would happen. If they restrict MWS and leave the lock pieces restricted, then Eldrazi and fish get back none of the tools they need to fight, blue/storm runs roughshod over the field, and WotC says "the sky is falling - unrestrict MWS!"

    We can be fairly confident that blue will eat a meta stripped of MWS, Eldrazi with thorn/chalice, and fish sans thorn/chalice. There's no real point in trying a world of no MWS or lock pieces since the outcome is pretty obvious. The only way to test if MWS is unnecessary for stability is if tools are made available to other decks trying to step into the newly opened space. You can't nueter MWS, but still nerf Eldrazi and all fish strategies, and expect that to show MWS is needed or not.



  • I'm not entirely sure why I thought this thread could be about something other than B&R? but that was definitely my bad :) Please redirect the conversation to the official B&R thread located here


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