@maximumcdawg Dack Fayden and Bolas are not enough against a horde (and who's bringing Wurmcoil against a Dack Fayden deck?). Also, would you really play Bolas 1.0 over 2.0?

The Elspeths seem good, but maybe 3 blockers that are easily killed by Ballista are not that great. The real great scenario here is Sun's Champion -3, killing mostly/all of his big creatures.

Gideon Jura gives you another turn, that I agree. But he may not be enough to actually win you the game there.

Gideon of the Trials does not make you un-killable. He just gotta attack Gideon with one of those creatures.

Look, I'm not even saying Will is good or even playable, but trying to come up with scenarios where what he can do no other PW can. I really think he gives you good windows to win against Shops. Would you actually play any of the Elspeths or Gideon Jura over Will in such a deck?

@chubbyrain There's a very clear-cut, infallible way planeswalkers are evaluated in vintage. Is the card name "Jace, the Mind Sculptor"? If so, it is playable. If not, it is dime-bin chaff. That's the stick we always use to measure and it shant ever change.

@thewhitedragon69 said in [BBD] The Kenrith Walkers:

@chubbyrain There's a very clear-cut, infallible way planeswalkers are evaluated in vintage. Is the card name "Jace, the Mind Sculptor"? If so, it is playable. If not, it is dime-bin chaff. That's the stick we always use to measure and it shant ever change.

This is dumb and dismissive and contributes nothing to this conversation. There are PLENTY of walkers that are not JTMS that see competitive, top level play, including the new Karn, Flip Jace, Liliana, Chandra Torch, Teferi, Dak Fayden, the list goes on.

@thewhitedragon69 infallible you say? my goodness!

@topical_island @Protoaddct You guys are funny. I can't believe you didn't catch the sarcasm there. The "JtMS measuring stick" is way overused and is as faulty as the "can it die to bolt/does it pitch to FoW" criterion for evaluating card play-ability. So many people dismiss things on narrow and inappropriate criteria. I thought for sure - especially with that last sentence - everyone would see the facetiousness of that post.

Rowan Kenrith seems really bad, so I think it’s fair to just evaluate Will on its own.

6 is a tough spot in many existing curves. What’s the last good card at that spot in the curve - Dromoka maybe?

The function of which was:

• Catch you up against aggro
• Set up your next turn against control decks
• Win in a few turns
• Be Oathable (effectively justifying its spot in the deck if you don’t hit 6)

I think this has similarities in its functionality to Dromoka, but I don’t think it catches you up that effectively against most current aggro. Pyromancer laughs at this. Ravager with Factory laughs at this. Marit Lage is neutralized though.

I love the +2 ability but the mana cost of Will effectively makes that -2 cost modifier irrelevant against Shops. But I think it plays really well with Force unconditionally and the other free counters conditionally. One of my big frustrations with Jace TMS and Dack is that they aren’t that effective at drawing into Force of Will in a way that still leaves you ahead. This PW seems insane for doing that. Not to mention the other counters - imagine being able to hardcast Mindbreak Trap to protect Yawgmoth’s Will and still have three mana left over to cast goodies from your graveyard?

One thing to note: this plays suboptimally with off color Moxen and Mana Crypt / Vault. They help to cast it, but then they are useless for casting your Demoinc Tutors and Tinkers and such.

I’m not sure where I’d play this. But it does solve a specific problem with Force of Will and the Jayemdae Tome functions of playable planeswalkers.

Edit: I just re-read the -2. You can cast Mindbreak Trap for UU on your opponent’s turn. That seems insane. I still don’t know how much of a difference maker it is at 6 though.

@thewhitedragon69 My sarcasm detector is demonstrably fallible. Flawed even.

@maximumcdawg probably would play barney in dredge

The creatures with 'partner' in this set allow you to search up library for its 'partner' and place it in hand, do these planeswalkers do the same? If so, that's great, and become more interesting.

@ten-ten yes, that's what "partner with" does, reminder text or no