Survival Salad



  • @kaluma You could also run Dark Deal as pseudo Wheel of Fortune if you want more wheel effects.



  • I played 2 or 3 leagues with deep analysis and I remember seeing it about 6 times. One of them was in a hand that I had to mulligan (due to having it and not having survival/bazaar, but it would lead to the same outcome with TC), about 3 times it was great, and in two of them it made my opponent use his GY hate in response to fetch activation/playing mox to cast it, which is... acceptable. In all of the good situations I had bazaar.

    Being realistic, without bazaar, we can barely cast TC. And in games without bazaar where we can cast TC, we probably will already have the 4 mana to cast deep analysis. Didn't feel like an awesome card, but I don't see how that slot gets better. It can make some bad situations worse by drawing into it, but it's also another nice hit for the upkeep bazaar with no cards in hand.



  • Eternal Weekend results:
    Bant Survival = 64% win rate (7 players)
    RGwu Survival = 58% win rate (4 players)
    Other Survival = ~63.6% win rate (4 players: Junk, Bug, 2 4c lists)


  • TMD Supporter

    @spook I assume GWUR is Other, here. Does anything else fall in that category?



  • @drstreetmention I had written the colors backwards and updated my post, I got the info from the spreadsheet posted by Diophan


  • TMD Supporter

    @spook Well I probably should have been able to parse that properly anyway. Thanks for the breakdown.

    If you already have this handy: how many of each variety were there?



  • @drstreetmention edited the "original" post -- although going through the decklists right now, Paul Callis who played "Junk Survival" to a 6-2 record played the same 60 as the winning Asia Vintage Champs-- so it really was Bant.

    Cleaning up the data and moving people to the right category:
    Bant Survival = 65% win rate (8 players)
    RGwu Survival = 55% win rate (6 players with 1 or more Ancient Grudge and Chewer)
    Other Survival = 75% win rate (1 player: FOW Leovold / Misstep)


  • TMD Supporter

    @spook very interesting. Thanks.



  • @kaluma said in Survival Salad:

    time to burn some play points on this pile šŸ˜„

    0_1541789877219_0a25073a-1240-4822-a576-b04829226df1-image.png

    That looks really cool. Let me know if your going to stream it.



  • @spook said in Survival Salad:

    @drstreetmention edited the "original" post -- although going through the decklists right now, Paul Callis who played "Junk Survival" to a 6-2 record played the same 60 as the winning Asia Vintage Champs-- so it really was Bant.

    Cleaning up the data and moving people to the right category:
    Bant Survival = 65% win rate (8 players)
    RGwu Survival = 55% win rate (6 players with 1 or more Ancient Grudge and Chewer)
    Other Survival = 75% win rate (1 player: FOW Leovold / Misstep)

    Thanks for puttting this together. Not surprising to me in the least--the RGwu versions are far more matchup dependent, and that's not as good in a huge tournament like Champs. Bant was simply ultra stable and did well. FoW Survival was me, and I finished 8-2 (with 1 loss to, of all things, Blood Moons), good for the casual 75%. That's not really any sample size.

    What I see from this is that--back of the napkin--is that you've got enough sample size that you're about 80% certain that bant was better against the champs field than RGwu, and 0 statistical certainty about anything about FoW Survival.

    That said--every single version is notably north of 50%, so I'm quite certain that we had the best deck in the room, with a very decent conversion rate to the top 8.



  • @neo_altoid you could play a ham sandwich to top 32, as long as it has overpowered land(s) and some spicy mustard. So Iā€™m not taking your result as worthwhile. But that is a good disclaimer for other people.



  • That was really surprising to me. I guess people are more used to playing the bant version as it's older and got that win (I actually got a MP in the day before asking for advice about the red version and the person decided to switch decks 1 day before the champs), and the shift to the red version is not that easy, or maybe it was better against the field there. From my experience, the MTGO results are way better with the red version, maybe the bant version is really better against that field, or those players. But anyways, that small sample with very different players is surely not enough to take any conclusions, and I wouldn't ever advise someone to play bant instead of the red version. Maybe I'm too biased as I'm really grateful for that deck for the results it brought me.

    Anyway, I think we are past that, since the BUG version sounds way better than both of those. The PO matchup went from something from 40-60/50-50 with the bant/red version to pretty favorable with the BUG version.

    BTW: I tested hurkyl's in BUG survival, and it felt pretty awkward when behind. I think energy field is really better there.



  • @GutoCmtt what is the mix of decks that you play against online? We can compare those %'age and win rates for those matches against the Champs field %'ages.



  • I didn't keep track, but I think it was something like
    18% PO
    15% jeskai mentor/UR(w)pyro
    12% shops
    10% survival
    10% dredge
    6% oath
    5% eldrazi
    5% combo (DPS or belcher)
    5% standstill
    5% grixis tinker
    5% bug
    4% random decks



  • Has anyone explored a build with Ancient Tomb? I feel like this deck loves speed and being able to hard-cast your guys more reliably and quicker seems good. Also it may allow you to play a more diverse range of creatures to tutor for if that has any importance. Thoughts?



  • going to pop on stream for a bit if anyone wants to hang out!
    www.twitch.tv/kaluma47



  • In the BUG Variants running 4 Dr. Shaman and Leovold, and ESG (Albeit not played most games for this purpose), could a Singleton Priest of Titania be a thing? Anything past her and another elf leads to enough consistent Mana (looking at you Orcish Lumberjack) to go off every turn right?

    Also, would Waterfront Bouncer be an option as another discard outlet and protection/threat? Obv also works with Guilded Drake, but both seem good on thier own.



  • @serracollector said in Survival Salad:

    In the BUG Variants running 4 Dr. Shaman and Leovold, and ESG (Albeit not played most games for this purpose), could a Singleton Priest of Titania be a thing? Anything past her and another elf leads to enough consistent Mana (looking at you Orcish Lumberjack) to go off every turn right?

    Priest of Titania is win more. 3 mana+Survival is realistically death already, and while it would be great to cast Hollow One, it's often better to just cycle it away and try to hit gas or a more castable card.



  • saw someone's list from last week's challenge on the Bant version with a Vryn Wingmare in the SB that looked sweet. Want to see how good it might be in the maindeck, and maaaaybe went a little overboard.... full on prison plan for g2, still good against xerox and combo after board, lots of cards for shops, dredge, oath.

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  • @rat3de The issue I see with Tomb is that Survival is exponentially more powerful the more green mana you have--G gets you a relevant creature, GG develops your board nicely, GGG often ends the game. Giving up a land drop to a land that doesn't get you closer to GGG is a cost, and even Bazaar sometimes feels like a drag for that reason. It seems very difficult to me to play both.



WAF/WHF