@drstreetmention I think so. Loam gives you the ability to start dredging for Vengevine/Squee/Bazaar even if you don’t have Survival/Bazaar yet. It both protects you from WL and helps you get into your action. Then it happens to be so much better with Bazaar, too.
@fsecco Actually cage doesn't stop ramunap, it stop from casting, not playing from the GY. But anyways, the recurring factor, and the fact that it's kinda counter-proof makes it better IMO. We could even play dryad arbor and combo survival + loam + arbor for recurring every turn.
I always wondered how would dryad arbor be on our deck since it's a tutorable land which doesn't require extra mana to generate mana in 1 turn, while shaman requires the activation mana plus his mana cost. There were a lot of times where I wished I could fetch for it.
@gutocmtt I used to play an Arbor when I had Cradle in the deck. It’s fine but not great.
@wfain That's something I'd like to try when I'm more in the mood for brewing. Just played against a BURG or whatever and bob was awesome in that match. I almost won, but the deck had maindeck shaman AND SCAVEGING OOZE! I went through the whole deck but only found one of the two assassin's trophy in the last 20 cards.
Scooze is spicy as heck. I'm tempted to try him out in the board.
@yayjinaz Yeah, if the mirror becomes more prevalent the Scooze (plus Cradle) would become very good. As it stands it is too slow to be of use vs Dredge (without Trap/Leyline) the way Priest is, and is obviously worse vs Oath.
I gotta say, I was impressed with cratermaker. Got 4-1 in the first league, the deck felt pretty good.
It was relevant in every matchup:
*Against PO killing any artifact or karn or mentor (this one obviously you have to take care about timing)
*Against UR Pyro, killing pyro and shaman (it was a pretty weird URBG deck)
*Against dredge, killing hollow one AND getting rid of their bridges, it a was pretty nice trick to have and made my opponent slow down until I find trap
*Can kill cage, priest, jailer...
Maybe I'd even get a second copy to play in the SB. It destroys every non-enchantment hate out there, so it would be nice to have in sideboard games against pretty much every deck.
wfain last edited by wfain
Yeah, I’ve been trying to convince people to play that card. It is so versatile AND solves so many of our common issues in one simple package. It also happens to cost 2 for a 2/2 so... limited all-star alert!!! but really, it just does something good in basically every commonly met difficult situation (and boy, will you feel good when it breaks up a Displacer/Priest combo against Eldrazi)!
@wfain Yeah, when I started a match against eldrazi I looked at that card and was like "ok, here's a vindicate in a stick" haha
Got 5-0 now, and dark confidant just won some games on it's own. Specially games 2 and 3, when you have bob in play with pyroblast and/or misstep in hand, kinda feels unbeatable. I'm thinking of throwing a grudge to the SB instead of the loam and replacing it with bob. Loam sounds like a nice idea, but usually I have mana problems when I can't get to my second non-creature-spell-mana. Didn't get a chance do fight shops yet, but I guess there are a lot of good cards against it (3 rod, 3 grudge, cratermaker, 2 trophy, and the combo!). When I played against midrange decks with wasteland, it came up but didn't get to be relevant.
Fair enough, good luck!
My favorite thing about this deck is there are approximately 3 fairly distinct versions that are all reasonable->very good. There’s about 45-50 cards (including lands and moxen, a few mana dorks, recall, and wonder) that all the versions play but you can diverge pretty wildly on the last parts of the plan and still be successful! Gives the core of the deck a lot of flexibility and staying power moving forward!
This is what I'm running this weekend at RTS Championships
![alt text](image url)
I’ve never understood the third Savannah in that build. Totally unnecessary imo. You don’t even want to cast white cards against Shops after the first Stoney Silence. I’d be inclined to include either Bayou (and play some DRS), another Trop, or a Cradle.
Had to submit the list a few days ago but just revealed yesterday. I agree now that DRS is simply an all-star in survival. If I could take back my submission I'd swap to DRS over NH and add in a Bayou over the Savannah. But this is similar to my 6-0-1 list from a few weeks ago and I was comfortable with it. Just a few silver bullet changes with Gilded Drake and Phantasmal Image.
yeah, I think the list is good in general. Just never understood the third Savannah. Good luck!
If anyone's got POS, Moon Stompy, Turbo Xerox, Snapcaster Control, or White Eldrazi built on MTGO and is interested in helping a brother out I'd love to jam some games tonight and tomorrow night to prep for the tourney I'm playing. Here's the other decklists: http://lonestarlhurgoyfs.com/2018-11-29-Romancing-The-Stones-Invitational-Dec-1/
AeonSovarius last edited by
Been thinking about this, and just sleeved up a version. Have some thoughts i want to ask about, but let me know if it's already been covered before. Just bear with me as i have not played any form of this deck against anyone yet.
Is Vengeful Pharaoh interesting?
It's a reasonable effect that sits in the graveyard to remove something off their board, plus it can also (sort of) put a creature card in your hand when you run out by being back on top for drawing.
It's not explosive or obviously powerful but i sort of feel like pitching during your opponent's combat could be a thing at some point, though i realize we are not really on the plan of activating Bazaar and Survival on their turn.
Mana Crypt? Unless i'm mistaken, it appears to me no one is playing this. It doesn't really cast the colored creatures like Leovold but it really amps you into casting Hollow One and Vengevine if need be, but is also just a bonus Mox for Turn 1 Survival.
Does anyone like Mental Misstep or Flusterstorm in a non-Force version? Maybe a couple Misstep in the side to help against Cage?
Mana Confluence: is it greedy? A lot of versions seem to be 3 color and have a splash in some way? It's not fetchable, but if you draw it, you don't have to fetch it.
Dryad Arbor, i saw a little discussion but not a lot. Seems a great way to feed DRS in a pinch, another body pitch to survival, can be fetched, etc. Seems medium but seems to have very strong utility.
Demonic Tutor in black versions? Are we just so redundant we don't want to wait around to spend 2 mana? I mean (of course you know what DT does) it's just another Bazaar or Survival or any body or Time Walk.
In the line of tutors, could Entomb ever be useful? Entomb gets the Squee or the Vengevine when you don't have a Survival or creature in hand, Grudge if need be.
Anyway, thanks for reading even if you don't particularly have any thoughts.
Vengeful Pharoah: not a relevant ability for Vinage games.
Mental Misstep: I’ve been playing 3 in a non-FoW, non-Thalia version and been pleased with it.
Dryad Arbor: is fine, not great. The Survival interaction is neat but hardly something you’ll do. Works well if you want to play Cradle though.
Mana Confluence: you could build the mana base off these if you wanted, but you’d have to eschew DRS.
craw_advantage last edited by craw_advantage
@aeonsovarius One issue with Mana Confluence is that it doesn't activate Wonder when you need it. So you still need at least one Tropical Island in the deck and you also might need to fetch it proactively, which is inconvenient if you're on the kind of five-color list that would benefit from a rainbow land.
I think Demonic Tutor is probably too expensive to be a fifth Survival/Bazaar. Entomb might be interesting though, in a black-heavy version.