Hapless Researcher maybe? You don't often need more than one loot, he's cheaper and kills bridges. I also don't know how necessary a looter is.

@john-cox It's a luxury, not a necessity, and does help with the blue count.

For example, I think it would be worth trying Magus of the Bazaar of Phantasmal image in my list (but it's a "worth trying", not "100% I want this")

@neo_altoid idk, I’ve been impressed with PI. The ability to actually 20 piece someone is nice (especially Oath).

On a totally unrelated and irrelevant note, do the new Vengevine and Noble Hierach masterpieces push this deck even further into the insurmountable #1 Most Expensive Deck slot by a longshot?

last edited by joshuabrooks

@joshuabrooks said in Survival Salad:

On a totally unrelated and irrelevant note, do the new Vengevine and Noble Hierach masterpieces push this deck even further into the insurmountable #1 Most Expensive Deck slot by a longshot?

I think you certainly can have a pimp version of this deck which is nearly as bad as anything else. I think the only reason you don't get there is that USea--which we don't play--is so much more expensive than pimp versions of Trop and Bayou.

@joshuabrooks I'd bet a fully masterpiece'd Shops deck costs more.

Going to be streaming some Vintage today if anyone wants to hang out!


@kaluma I wonder if white is a better color for the FoW versions? You could play several Spell Queller to allow for a higher blue count and even more ways to counter PO.


How are you jamming in more blue cards? All of the black cards main are already blue as well!

For real though, I thought about Spell Queller, and my issue with the card is that it sucks against Jeskai. You end up wanting to Spell Queller cards like Preordain rather than spells that matter, since you get so thoroughly ranched by removal if you ever tuck something like a Jace or Dack Fayden under the card. Leovold is blue, and does the deed of hosing PO roughly as well as Spell Queller (we trade beating Tinker for being better against the cantrips).

@neo_altoid idk, I’d have to sit down and look at it.

@wfain i'd be down to try it, but really leovold is the best blue creature - the intersection between SoTF and FoW that you are looking for.

@kaluma @neo_altoid

Maybe this is good? I'll try it a couple matches tonight.

Poor Squee, he's already got that face and you put him alone ;(

I think between queller and leovold, I'd put another copy of leovold. When I played queller I didn't like holding mana for it, sometimes you have to spend more than a turn and not do other things. Leovold is just a must-answer creature in more than half of the matches, and if you are running missteps and fow to protect it while drawing cards from his hability, it's just insane.

Just played a league with the list from kaluma's stream and I really liked it. Phantasmal and containment priest made me run more confidence against tinker (while still losing, but variance hits every deck), and I guess it would be nice against oath and it's blue to force.

Btw, I really liked your idea of hurkyl's in the side. Hurkyl end step to survival with nothing holding you back, and even have another turn until your opponent be able to attack again. I mean, energy flux is kinda lights out for shops when you play it, but it's 3 mana against a deck with wasteland, sphere, revoker... And sometimes hurkyl would save you when flux wouldn't. I'll definitely try it for my next league on flux's spot!

One thing that's bothering me is treasure cruise. It's never been able to be good to me. Sure, sometimes you will draw lots of cards with it, but it takes some time to set it up. With no extreme cantripping and stuff you sometimes have to bazaar some amount of times to make it work, and then you are just compensating the card disadvantage you had from bazaar, and sometimes even exiling things you wanted. It's kinda like the time walk situation, except it's even harder here. And if you draw it when you are 'leylined', the game gets even worse. Have it been worth it for you guys?

last edited by GutoCmtt

Going back on other lists I saw wfain's idea of deep analysis (DA). And to me it sounds awesome in comparison to Treasure Cruise (TC):

You will probably TC either too late, or when you have bazaar online. With DA you don't have to worry to keep it in hand, leaving room for the best do-something cards you have in hand. When you bazaar blindly and you hit DA it's awesome. When you do it with TC, it's just a waste of bazaar activation. It can be cast through leyline (not easily, but I've cast tons of vengevines through leylines), and even if you have bazaar, in the late game it has the secred mode of pay 4 draw 2 in addition to the flashback.

I'm not sure DA is the best answer to what deserves that slot. But it's sounding better than TC to me.

Instead of treasure cruise could you use your own paradoxical outcome? Rootwalla, hollow ones and vengevines might not be that hard to get out again?

@highsididy1 4cmc is virtually uncastable

@gutocmtt I haven’t been in love with cruise either, but it is powerful and blue. Maybe DA is better? I could also be convinced of Brainstorm instead. As for the Queller- I did 2 because I wanted to actually see it in order to figure out if it is even worth having in the FoW version.

I'm just starting to think about this deck so forgive me if this is silly, but for the blue version has anyone just tried snapcaster mage and/or spellseeker? These add to the blue count, can be found by survival, and let you tutor for and replay ancestral and time walk. Might this be better than treasure cruise if you already run ancestral?

last edited by marcb

@marcb that is definitely something I was think about earlier, the problem is having 3 mana and UU is not trivial in this deck. You also run the issue of if you have Survival and the mana to do all that you could just make a bunch of dudes instead. Add that to the low spell count and I think those cards are not where you want to be.

Of those 2, spellseeker sounds better. When you have 1-ofs, you usually mean to grab then with survival. The only time you will spend 4 or 5 mana to a recall with survival online, is when there is some hate assembled. As most of the survival hates get snapcaster, you will probably want to fetch spellseeker, which would be fine considering it would 'replace' a creature with a recall. But still, I don't think that's enough. Also, the 5 mana it takes probably means you would have to take 2 or 3 turns to do that.

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