@ZaeferMalkav

I can only respond to the Bant Version of Survival since I have the most experience with this version, but so far I find that the most advantageous part is having access to all different sorts of hatebears for different situations.

That said, a lot of the time, you can tweak your list to be better prepared against other lists if you know the meta you are headed (for example running: stony silence and kataki main vs. just in the sb).


In recent days, I have been testing a BUGw version (BUG with a light splash of white for containment priest), and so far my testing has the list trading part of the mana consistency for access to Force of Will and other interactive cards.

I need more testing with the BUG version to continue my evaluation.

@zaefermalkav
Honestly, I see no reason why the Mox Diamond version doesn’t also play Leovold? It has so many lands already that incorporating a Bayou and a Jet can’t be a problem.

I have been playing the follow list in my monthly local vintage Tournament here in Chile.

I only won once the Tournament with a UBWr Survival with the red package (Ancient Grudge/Anger) but Bant version with Hierarch have probe been better.

My metagame is really wide and Oath and Paradoxical matchs are difficult. I'm still looking for the right balance in the SB, but i have to work it out.

Thanks for this long topic. All the improvement of this deck is because you guys. Is a pleasure to play this deck.

Creatures:27
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Containment Priest
2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Manglehorn
1 Spell Queller
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Vengevine
1 Wonder
4 Hollow One
1 Hooting Mandrills

Spells:14
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Stony Silence
4 Survival of the Fittest
1 Time Walk

Lands:19
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
2 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:15
2 Containment Priest
1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
1 Fairgrounds Warden
1 Manglehorn
2 Nature's Claim
3 Energy Flux
1 Mindbreak Trap
4 Ravenous Trap

Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster. I'm planning on bringing a bant list to a big tournament in my region, and have had some thoughts I would love to discuss. I recently shaved black entirely from the list and cut spell quellers as they felt a bit out of date. My current list for reference:

Engine/Wincon Creatures:
4 Hollow One
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Vengevine
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Wonder
1 Hooting Mandrills

Creatures that make mana:
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Elvish Spirit Guide

Utility (Role):
2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade (PO, Assorted)
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (PO, Xerox)
1 Containment Priest (Oath, Dredge)
1 Manglehorn (Shops, PO)
1 Deputy of Detention (Creatures)

Lock pieces:
3 Stony Silence
1 Chalice of the Void (On the fence here)

Survival of the fittest and Bazaars:
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

Busted Cards:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

Lands that make mana:
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
2 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Riftstone Portal

SB:
Fully open to debate.

Firstly, if I am expecting a fair amount of shops and creature decks, is deputy of detention playable in the main? I've seen differing opinions on 3 drops. I am definitely packing a manglehorn, but no spell quellers.

Also, in my testing with survival (and applejacks before this) cards in hand has always been a limiting factor, has any consideration been given to Gush now that Lavinia is becoming a more active hate card and Thalia is being trimmed. I feel there is a lot of opportunity in synergy with bazaar and possibility to refuel. It may just be too slow for what we want to be doing though.

Also, should I just be moving over to a red splash for grudges and access to chewer?

Should I consider a 1x walking ballista in the main as a tutorable 0 drop (like memnite in recent lists) that also has utility vs dredge and dealing with revokers?

@TheManAdrian

Have you considered finding space for Force of Will?

Deputy of Detention has always felt like a good replacement for Fairgrounds Warden, and a solid answer to anything (especially since you cut black).

If you expect a lot of Shops, then consider 2-3 Energy Flux in the sideboard and some number of Nature's Claim.

I find 2 Stony Silence and 1 Kataki, War's Wage should suffice in the main against shops. You can consider putting the 3rd one in the sideboard.

last edited by chikararyuu

Hi all,

another long time lurker, first time poster activates now that there seems to be signs of life in this thread.

I've always dreamed of owning paper power and I've been following Vintage scene for ages purely out of love for the format. Now that there might be a not-so-distant possibility for me to finally invest in paper power as well as Survival being an actual deck in Vintage (I was heartbroken when it got banned in Legacy) I decided to buy the necessary cards on MTGO and try out if actually playing Vintage was as much fun as I believed it to be.

So far I've played a total of 86 matches (17 leagues & 1 challenge) that I've kept track of. My deck has been Bant Survival from day 1. My match win percentage is currently 63,95% and I've managed to get 3 trophies in the current league and 1 in the previous one.

My current list is as follows:

Core
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Hollow One
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Vengevine
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Wonder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

Mana sources
1 Forest
3 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Elvish Spirit Guide

Disruption & Interaction
3 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
3 Stony Silence
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Deputy of Detention

Flex
1 Containment Priest
1 Manglehorn
1 Sylvan Library

@TheManAdrian
Few words about certain cards I'm running and omitting:

Deputy of Detention
Deputy has impressed me since the day I first tried it and it's even better now that War of the Spark has introduced another problematic permanent for us in the form of Narset, Parter of Veils. I wouldn't run less that 2 MD and I'm running a 3rd in the SB with no regrets.

Squee, Goblin Nabob
I'm running one MD and one SB. I ran two MD for a while thinking it would make 'aggressive Bazaaring' a viable strategy, but it was more a trap than anything else. I still have the 2nd in SB for the grindy control matchups.

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
I got one of the trophies with a list that had 3 Lavinia's and 2 Thalia's, but that list was running 0 Stony Silences MD. With Stony Silences back in the deck, I can't really find space for Thalia's. Thalia has always been nice especially against Xerox decks, but there are also other ways to combat those.

Sylvan Library
Losing to Xerox usually involves the following sequence: Noble gets Misstepped, Survival Forced and afterwards one of the lands gets Strip Mined. There are not many ways to get back in the game after such a beating, but a resolved Sylvan Library goes a long way to give you a fighting chance.

Hooting Mandrills
Haven't tried, don't see the appeal. Is the card and/or function something more than 'just a' 1 mana 4/4 trample when it's at it's best?

Island
I had 1 Island in SB for a while. I'd still like to run it as it felt like the best SB card against Workshops/Eldrazi, but I don't have the space for it. I wouldn't run it MD as I want all my lands to produce green mana (on turn 1). I don't run Riftstone Portal, Gaea's Cradle or Strip Mine for the same reason.

Walking Ballista
This is an interesting option that I hadn't considered. I would try it MD over the 2nd Deputy or the Containment Priest, but right now I don't see a compelling enough reason to do it.

Sample sideboard
1 Null Rod (PO, Workshops)
1 Deputy of Detention (Xerox, Workshops, BUG, Mirror)
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob (Xerox, Oath, BUG, Mirror)
2 Nature's Claim (Workshops, Xerox, Oath, Mirror)
2 Energy Flux (Workshops)
2 Mindbreak Trap (PO)
2 Containment Priest (Dredge, Oath)
2 Grafdigger's Cage (Dredge, Oath)
2 Ravenous Trap (Oath, Mirror)

Dredge is the only deck against which I have a match win percentage below 50%. For a long time I only ran 1+3 Containment Priests and 2 Grafdigger's Cages as GY hate, but I've since included Ravenous Trap into the mix to make the matchup more bearable. I haven't faced Dredge yet with this exact configuration so we'll see. Other than that I'm wondering if I want to play 4th Stony or 1st Null Rod. One is better against Hurkyl's Recall while the other one is better against Echoing Truth.

Thanks for making it this far. I hope that we get good discussion going on about this lovely deck of ours.

Roope
kortero on MTGO

last edited by rawpk

For the versions running Noble Hierarch over Dr. Shaman, what advantage is there in running duals/fetches over City of Brass, Mana Confluence, and Gemstone Mine? Even if your running Wonder wouldn't say 4 Trop, 4-6 fetch, and X Any color lands just be better? Just curious. Thanks!

@rawpk

I used to run Ravenous Trap in my list, but eventually decided to switchover to just Leyline of the Void. How do you sideboard for the matchup?

A lot of dredge lists in my area are pitch dredge lists, so sometimes my Ravenous Traps would be plucked out of my hand with Cabal Therapy before I could use them and/or get countered with Force of Will, so I decided to make the switch.


I haven't played Survival since WAR became legal, but Deputy of Detention had been an all-star when I ran it.


Regarding the Bant versions of survival, I found myself regularly outpaced by Paradoxical Outcome decks. Sure you could go 'full throttle' and jam out vengevines, but if you do not get it done in one swing, then they could combo off and it'll be over. Additionally, a lot of lists are bringing in Grafdigger's Cage to prevent this move, so you're already playing a slower, more methodical plan in this case.

Switching to the hatebear strategy (Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, etc) would work more consistently than the 'full throttle' plan, but without any interaction on their turn (aka countermagic), it felt very vulnerable to Karakas and Balance.

@serracollector said in Survival:

For the versions running Noble Hierarch over Dr. Shaman, what advantage is there in running duals/fetches over City of Brass, Mana Confluence, and Gemstone Mine? Even if your running Wonder wouldn't say 4 Trop, 4-6 fetch, and X Any color lands just be better? Just curious. Thanks

Few rainbow lands don’t enable one to splash red or black cards and the cumulative lifeloss just adds up even in Vintage. I’d rather spend ’the excess lifepoints’ on Sylvan activations. Additionally fetches are very valuable against Wasteland heavy decks so I try to run as many fetches as possible over anything spicy.

@chikararyuu

My plan against Dredge:
+2 Priest
+2 Cage
+2 Ravenous Trap
+1 Deputy
+2 Claim
-3 Stony
-1 Chalice
-1 Sylvan
-1 Squee
-1 Manglehorn
-2 Hollow One

Leyline is certainly the most effective way to combat Dredge, but I'm not yet willing to sacrifice my well rounded SB (and plans) against most of the field just to get more edge against Dredge.

Manglehorn has found it's way back to MB because PO is a problem and Karakas is very effective against all the legendary hatebears. For the same reason I'm now running two Mindbreak Traps as often even Lavinia combined with a Stony Silence has not been enough to win the game. Fast combo is certainly an issue, but I do enjoy the play style of this kind of build (i.e. make them have the answer instead of trying to fight on stack). And so far my record against PO is good enough with plenty of games under my belt against it that no drastic measures need to be taken.

Basic Island is probably very bad.
Access to Grudge and Pyroblast can be very helpful.
Gush is probably a lot worse than Deep Analysis, Treasure Cruise, or Sylvan Library.
Good luck everyone!

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