@wfain Yeah, hitting with 5 VVs have been useful from times to times (usually against combo decks). But I really think it's not worth it anymore.

BTW, I think I'll take a little bit of a timeout. A format full of dredge is a format not worth playing. It never was a deck nice to play against with any of the decks I ever played but at least it wasn't ridiculous to play against. Now it's everywhere, better and more boring than ever.

Put up another 4-1. Lost to GW Stoneforge hate bears (lots of Path to Exile). I think it might be worthwhile to change 1 of the Ouphe to a Manglehorn or Trygone Predator. It would be nice to be able to use Survival to blow up something like RiP, Batterskull, Leyline, etc rather than just get a Null Rod. I also changed Faerie Macabre to Yixlid Jailer btw.

I also wonder if Anger might deserve it’s space back if Hogaak is going to play? That’s probably not a counterspell version though.

I came 3rd in my countries largest annual vintage event with the list below:

Engine/Wincon Creatures:
4 Hollow One
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Vengevine
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Wonder

Creatures that make mana:
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Elvish Spirit Guide

2 lavinia
1 gaddoc teeg
1 Kataki
1 Containment Priest
1 Walking Ballista (more there for the Memnite trick)
2 Deputy of Detention
1 Sylvan Library

Lock pieces:
3 Stony Silence

Survival of the Fittest and Bazaars:
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

Busted Cards:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

Lands that make mana:
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
2 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Riftstone Portal

3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Energy Flux
1 Null Rod
2 Nature's Claim
2 Containment Priest
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Mindbreak Trap

This was a week ago, so no Modern Horizons. The list felt excellent, I was undefeated in swiss, then punted against dredge in the semifinals. Opponent had main deck hollow ones, so t1 containment priest with no follow up was not enough, game 2 I took a risky line and just miscounted after a long day of mtg.

Matchups to get there were: Bye, PO storm, PO storm, Depths, Tinker/key, ID. Quarters was eldrazi.

I highly recommend this deck for paper tournaments, since wonder makes the eldrazi matchup very easy, and there were about 9 players on that deck.

I have been seeing new lists cutting lavina, and I think that is very wrong. She single handedly crushed the PO decks by buying me extra turns.

@themanadrian Congrats on the finish.

PO is not really a factor in the current MTGO metagame as it put up 0 slots in the top 32 of the Vintage Challenge and has been maybe at 1-2 copy for a while. Some people play it but generally the deck is in the single digits of the metagame. I don't doubt that it's more substantial in Paper but the Paper metagame tends to lag behind MTGO. Just keep in mind that decks are built with different metagames in mind and that card choices are not inherently right or wrong independent of that context.

I do agree with you that Lavinia has a place in the current and future metagame by shutting down free spells such as Force of Vigor.

Another 5-0 with above list. Pretty much only doing 4-1 or 5-0.

This deck has gone 5-0, 4-1, and a 4-2 in the challenge this past week with a list I haven't really seen anyone else trying. The only loss in leagues involved two mulls to 4. I bubbled out of the top 8 after losing a win and in where I played pretty horridly.
5-0 list
0_1561338076204_Screenshot (31).png

I've found force of vigor to be just better interaction than force of will recently, and being virtually mono green pre board has felt very good. The most broken draws still involve vengevine and hollow one, but the addition of hogaak and bloodghast have made the average draws a lot more aggressive. Hogaak has made soft hate look pathetic, and pretty much every match I've lost I feel like it was my play errors that caused it, not the deck being beat.

last edited by notmi

That’s very interesting. I find the opposite to be true. I don’t really care about artifacts that aren’t Trinisphere. Karn is probably the most annoying card besides. That’s why I prefer the blue cards right now. I also struggle to believe not having access to Recall, Walk, and Wonder is correct (maybe Wonder matters less now that Shops is no longer an agro deck?)

I have, on the other hand, been thinking about a cross between the VV, Rootwala, HO stuff and more dredge style deck with Gravecrawler, Bridge, Therapy, Bloodghast, Hogaak, etc.

last edited by wfain


Killing artifacts and enchantments is relevant against every deck in the format, even dredge because of hollow one and leylines. I've found maindeck FoV to interact well with everything, shops based decks the most obvious example. Killing revokers and ballistas is really good, and often a double stone rain is also good enough.

Ancestral and time walk are obviously powerful cards, but I'm not sure they're actually necessary. I want to be attacking turn 1 or 2, and late game is hopefully locked into DRS or hogaak. I've actually missed wonder a couple times, notably in the mirror, but hogaak is still generally enough to get damage through.

I also considered going deeper into a bridgevine style deck, but I don't think that version is any faster or more resilient than the current version.

I've been trying something close to thelastgnu's list, and bazaar trademage as a 1 of has been pretty good. While Leovold is awesome against pyromancer decks, trademage has been good in most of the times I draw it. I don't think the second one would be great at bug though.

Ooze has been amazing. I'm using 1 in the main and 1 in the SB. When I play against dredge, it's better than containment priest. To have a shot against dredge we have to dilute the deck to a point where sometimes 1 or 2 hollow ones are enough to beat us. And as you know, enchantments and artifacts aren't good anymore as GY hate.

Ooze just becomes a monster, a hate card that is also an amazing finisher. Against survival it's ridiculous too, yesterday it won me a match against survival almost on it's own. It can be big against shops and against xerox it's pretty good at keeping GY at bay while being usually far from bolt range. It kinda reminds me of goyf in some matchups but it can win games on it's own. I'm not sold on the second one maindeck, but I'm sure 1 main 1 sideboard is the minimum I would play from now on.

I won't say I have the answer to how the deck should be, as I'm leaving MTGO a little bit aside in the last few months and there are a lot of things going on. When I thought I had it figured out, I started losing again to xerox (I was undefeated against it for like 10 matches, it was pretty easy for a while), and even oath has gotten better against the list I had. But whatever the best list looks like, I bet it has at least 1 copy of scooze.

A few cards that I have been testing recently has been Unsettled Mariner (if you plan to stay Bant (UGW) or 4 color (not red).

With all the force of vigor going around, it sounds like a nice way to protect your stuff.

I'll have to try out scavenging ooze. That completely missed my radar.

I’m currently testing out a 4 Trademage version with no survivals.

@wfain said in Survival:

I’m currently testing out a 4 Trademage version with no survivals.

I played a list a while back with no survival and 8 loot effects. It was very good but would have rolled over to missteps on my loot cards. Bazaar Trademage is an upgrade. I don't know if 4 is enough.

@wfain Interesting take. Do you mind posting a list?



Went 3-2 with this. Lost to dredge because Scavenging Ooze is awful and to Citadel Storm because both times I had Trademage and missed the second creature to bring back VV by a card or two. That seems to be the tension in the list. Trademage provides a very good burst but if you miss it doesn't give you the ability to keep looking like Bazaar or Survival would. It's also worth thinking about changing the two off color moxen for Lotus Petal and maybe ESG or even a Worldly Tutor?

@wfain scooze really sounds bad at your list. I forgot to add that I really hate dredge and that I didn't have success with the normal hate package I used to have. Between all forces, missteps, shoals they have an answer to anything we might have so I overhate tô brute force the matchup. Scooze is bad as the single hate card, but before I get to play it I usually play 2 or 3 hate pieces to hold. And after the second hate piece, scooze is the best because it's harder to kill and can hold hollow ones back. But when you have like 4 other cheap hate cards beside scooze, it's really not that great. Possibly not even good 😕

PS: it's good against xerox and amazing against bug aggro and survival. It constantly win games on it's own.

I just don’t think it’s that good in general. However, if I were to run it I would also be playing Gaea’s Cradle.

I’ve been messing with several different ideas the last couple days including: Rootwala and VV in dredge (fine, this just isn’t the meta for it), Sphinx of Foresight in a straight UG survival list (interesting, but there really is no reason not to have third color), finally, maindeck 3 Collector Ouphe. That’s really good. Do it. You won’t be upset.

Current list:
4 Bazaar
2 Bayou
2 Trop
1 Forest
7 Fetches (all for forests)
1 Lotus
3 Mox (BUG)
4 MM
1 Ancestral
4 Rootwalla
1 Time Walk
3 Collector Ouphe
4 Survival
2 Trademage
1 Trygon
1 Leovold
1 Wonder
4 VV
4 HO
4 FoW
1 Hogaak

3 Yixlid Jailer
4 Rav Trap
4 FoV
1 Collector Ouphe
2 Assassin’s Trophy
1 (whatever else you want, haven’t figured it out yet)

I know nothing about survival vintage but your list just looks beautiful. You really know what you are doing. Gz.

Hello all, wanted to share a survival list I played yesterday to a Top 8 finish.

The event was the Bearded Dragon vintage for a Mox event in NJ. We had 37 players (I believe) and played six rounds. I went 4-1-1 (last round intentional draw) to make top 8. Myself and @Mike-Noble both made Top 8 on survival (though he finished much better than I did and our lists were very different. Congrats to Mike on getting to the finals in a strong field!). I ended up in 6th or 7th I think.

The list I played is as follows:

5c survival:

4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Collector Ouphe
4 Vengevine
4 Hollow One
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Flash
1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Force of Vigor
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Survival of the Fittest
2 Bayou
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 City of Brass
1 Forest
4 Mana Confluence
1 Tropical Island
2 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Domri, Anarch of Bolas
1 Domri, Chaos Bringer
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Balance
1 Sudden Shock
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Null Rod
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland

My matches went as follows:

Round 1- infect. won 2-1 ( this was a bizarre round 1).

Round 2- UW suppression field control -won 2-1. Game one wheel of fortune on turn one let me do crazy things. Game 2. Turn one Lavinia followed by multiple spell quellers on my decays took me down. Game three. Insane bazaar hand gave me 2 hollow one, 2 vengevine, and a rootwalla turn one for a quick game.

Round 3- esper control lost 1-2. Game one was a long and very close grind but opponent got there. This was an epic game one. Involved a time twister on my part and a perfect mana drain from opponent a and great back and forth all game long. It was a game you don’t mind losing. Game 2. Domri Anarch of Bolas and carnage tyrant got to work and several hard cast vengevines which were uncounterable got me there. Game three my hand was 4x vengevine, Bazaar, hollow one, mana confluence (lets go all in). I hit a second hollow one off the bazaaar. Opponent recalled in response to vengevine triggers and hit a rav trap then he took care of my hollow ones fast. Game over basically.

Round 4 bug- won 2-1. Game one several hard cast threats and shaman got there. Game 2 loss because could not deal with 7/8 goyf (yea they were big). Game three insane bazaar hand and it was a quick end.

Round 5- UW control. Won 2-0. Game one. Lots of hollow ones and vengevines got there. Game two hardcast carnage tyrant showed his stuff for the win.

Round 6 draw

Top 8 bug lost 1-2 (excellent match of magic)
Game one I flash in wood fall primus and blow up all my opponents lands but he top decks what he needs to trophy the primus and game grinds for a while and ends with my opponent at 2 and me dead.
Game 2- domri anarch of bolas shows his stuff and basically wins me the game allowing me to cast uncounterable beaters and sudden shock clears a timely clique.

Game 3 (the fun ends)- turn one survival meets a force followed by a wasteland. Turn 2 survival resolves but I get stripped leaving only Mox ruby. Then got wasted again later on. Game grinded along but I knew I was done and died to a very diverse board of beaters.

I know the deck is very far off the normal list but it felt great all day long. Both Domri seriously impressed me and both played a role in several matches.
Carnage Tyrant was also insane and won me several games either literally or constructively.

The flash package is there because I wanted to play flash and obviously isn’t optimal but damn it was fun putting it on the stack and watcing the opponent instantly wonder “what is possibly going on now” lol.

Also I didn’t play misstep because I hate misstep and I love abrupt decay. For better or worse. Lol.

I’ll be glad to answer any questions. I know the list looks insane but I will gladly defend my choices and answer any questions.

Happy Brewing as always!

  • 856
  • 187155