different idea to try out: BANT survival
offers more solid mana base, stack interaction. at the cost of deathrite as a threat, kambal as a hate piece, decay in the board.

4 bazaar
4 survival
4 VV
4 hollow one
4 rootwalla
4 Noble
3 spirit guide
1 dryad arbor
1 wonder
1 manglehorn
1 tarmogoyf
2 thalia
2 spell queller
2 squee
1 thorn
1 chalice
1 time walk
1 ancestral
4 mox
1 lotus
6 fetches
2 trop
3 savannah
2 forest
1 cradle
SB
3 ravenous trap
2 energy flux
1 manglehorn
2 nature's claim
3 stony silence
2 containment priest
1 mindbreak trap
1 flex spot (plow? another energy flux? kataki? thalia? traps? faerie macabre? sylvan library?)

0_1528508654620_d354e400-4101-4be7-b1c9-1e83ccc7c537-image.png

last edited by kaluma

@kaluma @hierarchnoble

As kaluma posted above, we were talking on mtgo chat (who does that?) and Spell Queller came up as an interesting idea if we were looking at cutting colors. Kaluma had already been playing without Anger and told me that Bob had been cut as well, so I suggested maybe just cut black entirely. We were concerned about missing the disruption, but Spell Queller seems like a reasonable fit. My build differs slightly from the one above so I'll post it so we can talk about all the choices and hash something out.

0_1528498377718_NobleSurvival.JPG

@wfain I actually went up to 3 Bob's as I found he was so good at helping rebuild. With bob and squee you are "drawing" 3 cards a turn and turns on bazaar very quick.

Abrupt decay has been such a good catch all vs the jeakai pyro deck since it's both RiP removal and Mentor/young peezy removal. And also the only games I've won vs oath have been hitting oath with decay.

Edit: I guess I love bob in every match up except oath and vs t1 storm decks.

last edited by bleedth3sky

@bleedth3sky I agree, Bob has been very good for me too. But stabilizing the mana base is worth exploring as well.

I was actually thinking a JUND build might be the way to go, utilizing Bob's and Flamewake Phoenix's, and Bloodghasts like the Modern versions. This allows you to run all 8 spirit guides if you like to Activate Phoenix's or to Chuck to find more things.

@serracollector I don’t think you can play Bloodghast and Phoenix and Vengevine in a SotF deck. You’re not going to be able to cast both Bloodghast and Phoenix reliably while being able to activate Survival and using Bazaar. At the point you start including cards like Bloodghast I think you’re just turning into a bad dredge deck. I could be very wrong though. Show us how you would build it out.

Hey all 1 and 0 in the Vintage challenge vs shops. Game 1 t1 hollow one t2 bob with bazaar made for tons of CA ended the game by attacking with 4 VV 3 hollow ones and a tasigur. Game 2 he went double workshop into t1 birds into Energy flux backed up by a survival. (2-0)

Edit: Bob and Squee together solely won that game by letting me bazaar almost evry turn

match 2 game 2 top deck wonder with exactly lethal with me at 5 life facing down 2 thought-knot seer's. Good lord this deck is insane. (2-1)

Match 3 game 1 found nothing lost to hardcast blightsteel vs grixis. game 2 t0 leyline with just not enough pressure. had thalia and vengevine and hollow one but he found 4th land for dack. not sure if casting hollowone was correct but I needed cradle to tap for 3 for vengevine. (0-2)

Match UW Thalia Eldrazi?? Game one went quick with survival overwhelming them. game 2 t1 big thalia into 2 mimics into seer won that game. game 3 t1 bazaar double VV hollow one got the concession. (2-1)

Match 5 vs grixis win off of thorrn into thalia into goyf into chalice for 0. weird match indeed.
Game 3 keep bazaar and squee and a single hollow one and vv no other mana; he went t1 dack t2 jace I went t2 cast 2 hollow ones brought back 2 vengevines for the win. (2-0)

Match 6 Vs Paradoxical Oath won game 1 with a bunch of dudes and all their wincons in the grave. lost games 2 and 3 by just being a turn to slow even with priest.

Sitting at 4-2 in 11th unfortunately but love this deck most fun I've had in magic I think.

last edited by bleedth3sky

@serracollector if you go jund I'Ve been wanting to try a version with 3 ancient grudes main and 4x squee and run a whole bunch of looting. probably worse vs gy hate but could be super explosive and grudges might help vs outcome and shops if we can destroy all the moxes and such.

@bleedth3sky nice job! I’m glad you enjoyed it! This has really been one of the most fun deck building experiences for me, which is saying something. I’ve built and tuned a fair number of off-kilter decks.

So having jammed a few leagues with Bant Salad here are some assorted thoughts:

  • having a three color mana base is really really nice. makes fetching decisions easy and allows you to play multiple basics. Noble hierarch is also the perfect dork to play bc it is super on color, always makes mana (drs runs out of fetches a lot especially in matchups where you need him to make mana), and the pump ability allows you to attack through leovolds and mishras factories. very happy with this part of the deck.
  • spell queller has been solid. being immune to thalia and thorn is great, and the ability is often just disruptive enough. flash and flying are also very relevant keywords on their own. it's in an interesting space tempo-wise, where you don't necessarily want to have to hold up mana unless you're ahead on board. on the other hand, compared to kambal, you do force the opponent to actually tap mana and so in that respect is tempo neutral. overall i think kambal is a stronger card, but queller has been cool!
  • i like the draws that feel like a tempo deck. i.e. spit out ~4 power on turn 1 and try to disrupt just enough to get them dead. there is certainly the ability to grind or combo off as well, but getting ahead on board and holding up spell queller is pretty cool.
  • containment priest from the board has been good too. dredge/oath are tough matchups and having more cards helps. also an option against tinker-bot, but it does involve holding up mana.
  • last couple leagues i've been crushing UW and slightly negative against shops. might just be slightly unlucky as the shops plan is basically the same as before, but maybe i'll find room for tryogon or something. Blue decks continue to be strong matchups without decay, bob, chains, deathrite, etc. my sideboard has really just been 2 natures claim for manglehorn and 1 noble.
  • one more idea to push this further towards bant tempo is judge's familiar. super on color, acts like 1 mana thalia, is cheap to trigger VV's. might not be worth it if combo isn't as prevalent.

Edit - judge's familiar mock up
0_1528654851251_67689e6e-2e56-4e60-887b-6d3168cc54f4-image.png

last edited by kaluma

@wfain @kaluma

I really like the idea of taking the deck in a G/x/y color direction rather than trying to dance around future lines with early game fetching. All too often I've found myself trying to guess at color #4 to play to future outs only to be disappointed with what I chose. I haven't been on MODO this month beyond goldfishing with a failed experiment, but I should hopefully return tomorrow to try some of these out. Keep on keeping on, and congrats to Kaluma on getting Survival published for yet another week.

I'm going to stream the Kaluma Anger-less build tomorrow starting around 5:30 PM EDT. The stream can be found here and the decklist I'll be playing can be found here. I'll probably play a Bant version Thursday but I wanted something a bit more familiar to get back into the swing of things. Hope to see everyone then!

@hierarchnoble just when you think you’re out... we pull you back in!

@hierarchnoble I know right! I was thinking about that watching the SCG vintage event. Like, Survival would be abysmal to play in paper for that many rounds...

Some more cards to mess around with:

Brain gorgers
Gerald's masterpiece
Bloodrage brawler
Incorrigible youths
Razormane masticore
Jace, vryn prodigy
Ancient grudge sb

last edited by YakuzaXRock

I really don’t like the Bant version. It just doesn’t have enough for some reason.

@wfain Just finished a 5-0 league to get a Bant list posted 😄
I am really liking it. Mana base is real smooth and I feel like I have tools for every matchup. Obviously it's vintage, so some games just turn into blowouts no matter what, but the deck is starting to feel like a well oiled machine. I like containment priest and swords as versatile SB options.
Against shops:
-3 thalias, -judge's familiar, -2 spell queller, -chalice, -thorn, -1 survival.
+3 energy flux, +2 stony, +2 claim, +1 plow, +manglehorn
Against dredge:
-goyf, -mandrils, -chalice, -1 squee, -3/4 noble, -1 spell queller
+2 claim, +plow, +manglehorn, +3 rav traps, +2 priest
Against Blue (no dack, no drs)
-manglehorn, -1/2 noble (trim Hollow against dack, squee against drs)
+2 natures claim, +plow maybe
Against combo:
+traps, +stony, +manglehorn (+plow +1/2 priest against mentor/tinker)
-3/4 noble, -goyf, -mandrills

Edit: adjusted SB notes a bit. Also just finished two more leagues, both at 4-1.

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last edited by kaluma

@serracollector to kill Hollow One. That is a very common plan they’ll use in sideboard games.

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