I played 3 ESG in place of the off color Moxen to help enable turn 1 Survival, Ouphe or Thalia. They also have the bonus of helping you work through your Survival chain if you're tight on land. I did want to try and fit other creatures in the deck, Containment Priest, Phantasmal Image, Knight of Autumn and Sanctum Prelate to be exact, in order to have bullets against particular matchups, but decided that the Deafening Silence and Force of Vigor handled them just as well and tended to be more game breaking. I actually put up a very quick write up in the tournament report thread.
Played a list with 3 OuaT, it felt pretty good. Honestly, before it the deck wasn't feeling good anymore. I had cut a Fow and 2 ouphe for it and the deck felt way more explosive.
I don't know about cutting survival without extra ajustment. OuaT may find bazaar, but if you rely too much on finding bazaar with it to be in the game, you're not in a favorable spot. Sometimes survival isn't great, but it's still the must-counter threat in fair matchups as it's always been.
Btw, how did sphynx perform? I felt OuaT gave the deck a lot of explosiveness, maybe your result was good more because of that change?
I am also trying out OuaT (4) and agree that it is xplosive.
Makes it a lot more common to get the "Good start hand" with BoB, x hollow, y vengevine and z rootwalla.
I also go without FoW (Like Myk´s decklist), since OuaT also help a lot to find the silver bullet bear.
I went down to only 3 survival What do you think?
@myk dont you miss a bit SB hate against dredge?
Merry X mas everyone
@GutoCmtt Trying to accomplish xplosive start as often as possible. Alternate a "silver bullet bear" turn 1 or 2. Using survival more as a mid game card.
No counter, since I expect more than one silver bullet often in reach (Bazaar, OuaT and survival)
I shal Refer to bazaar as bazaar
Here is my recent list
3 Survival of the Fittest
4 Hollow One
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Collector Ouphe
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Deafening Silence
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
2 Force of Vigor
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Once Upon a Time
1 Collector Ouphe
4 Ravenous Trap
1 Force of Vigor
4 Containment Priest
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sanctum Prelate
Wfain, I count 13 1 toughness creatures in that deck and no maindeck Ouphe or Null Rod, so I'd try a skull clamp in there. How has Hope of Ghirapur been?
Also, if we're posting vengevine decks without Survival Of the Fittest in them, over the weekend I did two leagues and a vintage challenge with this deck and went 11-5 in matches. I'm still tinkering with it, there's probably an ideal list I haven't figured out yet.
That seems cool! I think OUaT is just better than Serum Powder if you can actually cast the spell ever... it would also be interesting to consider some of my cards (Emry & Titan) in your list!
Hope was an inclusion for the last run, it did win a game against PO because they weren’t going to get to take the third turn where they normally storm off. Also fine in a pinch vs Dredge.
Boogdish, very interesting build. I agree that OuAt could be better in your deck? Then I would transform "null rod" to ouph, bring in an ekstra "force of vigor" and get rid of Mishras workshop.
Transforming to green: OuAT can find Bazaar of Bagdad, Ouph - can ditch to "force of vigor" and fuel Hogaak. That is a lot of functions for one card?
Maybe we need a Survival-less Survival thread.
Anyway, @Boogdish and I have been on a similar wavelength, apparently.
I 5-0ed earlier this week with this deck and 4-1'ed over a dozen times with similar builds over the last three weeks.
I've found the Stonecoils/Ballistas to be better than Memnite here, since they not only can be cast for at least twice the power for the same cost with Bridge in the graveyard, but are easier to scale into formidable threats on their own. I've been shooting down Deathrite Shamans with Ballista and closing out games quickly with Stonecoils when the graveyard plan fails (pro multicolor is huge vs Bug/Dack).
Maindeck Leyline has been very powerful in this metagame. Many decks, even the Xerox variants, rely heavily on the graveyard (e.g., Wrenn, Arcanist). Further, making it harder to remove the Bridges gives you resiliency against removal. I only side them out versus Outcome.
The sideboard still needs some work, but I'm sold on the Leyline of Sanctities. They not only deal with Trap/Crypt, but also Hurkyl's Recall, which lets you pivot harder into a prison deck against Outcomes/Combo. With the Bazaar/Squee engine, you can keep piling on the lockpieces against them.
The Wastelands and Ghost Quarters are primarily there for Shops/Dredge. They're also useful against Xerox variants, since they they help to cast threats when you need to dodge graveyard hate and also keep pressure on their manabase while you're chipping away.
Usually, I have one to two Crucibles in the board for the Shops matchups over some number of Quarters/Revokers, which I think is correct.
Nice looking list Zias! Another bonus of using the Ballista / Serpent over Memnite is it lets you chalice for zero without turning off a bunch of your own cards.
Wfain, Mergalf, I think I will try OUAT again, thanks.