@hierarchnoble @wfain Do you think 2x Thalia 1x thorn split or bump to 3 Thalia?

I plan on sticking with fetch base but dropping cradle for another forest and dropping red for easier fetching game one. Should make it a bit more resilient vs wasteland as I've found myself never needing anger except vs oath.

Edit: Not missing red so far but thorn and chalice are both fantastic so far.

I went:
-1 taiga, +1 Trop; -1 Cradle, +1 Forest; -Anger, -Deathrite, + Chalice and Thorn.

last edited by bleedth3sky

@bleedth3sky I think 2-1 is better than 3-0. Thorn is easier to cast, and we can stack 2 effects sometimes rather than just 1 with Thalia. Another card I put in last night that I think is good is Dryad Arbor. Allows you do Survival for another green source, improves Cradle reliability, and can be pitched to Survival if you draw it late. I'm interested in what happens without needing red mana anywhere. I think I'd keep Squee, but then I would probably want a couple Nature's Claim in the board.

EDIT: I've updated the OP to reflect where I am now.

last edited by wfain

5-0 number three for me with Survival Salad! 2 wins vs RUG/Titania Outcome, 1 vs Dredge, UR Twin, and Grixis Tinker (which might've had Outcome, G1 I played Thalia, Goyf, Hollow, and VV on turn 1, he scooped, G2 he played Time Walk on 1 into Tinker/Bot, G3 I had Stony on 1, SotF on 3 and killed him on 5 through Strip Mine, Mana Drain, and JTMS). Posting list below, will also update OP.


I love this thread and it looks like an awesome deck @wfain . I can't wait to take it for a spin. It's rare that a vintage deck requires someone to grab a bunch of cards they have never owned before, so well done!

Now take this one step further and figure out how to resurrect TNT and take us to the promised land 😉

@joshuabrooks I legitimately don’t know what TNT is? Some kind of Tooth and Nail deck or no?

@wfain said in Survival Salad:

@joshuabrooks I legitimately don’t know what TNT is? Some kind of Tooth and Nail deck or no?

And old deck from 2003/2004? Nicknamed from Tools N' Tubbies.

Goblin Welder
Memory Jar
Survival of the Fittest/Anger/Wonder/Squee

And some variants included Pyrostatic Pillar, Blood Moon, etc. Was an amazingly fun deck to play.

last edited by joshuabrooks

@joshuabrooks I played a rug Tnt and man is it fun but you make your workshop match up so bad by relying on welder now that they have ballista. I just can't imagine a world where ravaged shops is around and a colored shops could compete. I would be more inclined to try 5c Stax rather than Tnt.

@hierarchnoble I’ll watch (if there is a replay) after the NBA Finals tonight!

I decided to try limiting myself to only 3 colors and see where that took me in some different builds. My first attempt was RUG. These are the results:


I only played one practice match vs Dredge (I won). This has a very interesting line in it where you can pitch Anger to grab Lumberjack, play it with haste and eat a Forest for GGG to use 3 more Survival activations (especially good if you cast him off Mox Ruby!) It only nets you 1 G mana (unless you had the Ruby) but it nets you and extra discard which could allow for an extra 4 damage!

I'll add other 3 color experimental versions later on!

last edited by wfain

@wfain I was thinking about trimming colors also, but am more interested in getting rid of red. the splash is pretty light and seems mostly replaceable. Anger has been okay at rebuilding against control decks and in theory is a way to battle oath decks, but in practice it might not come up enough to be justified. Against control they can often interact with the GY with deathrite or rest in peace, or you just don't need that effect too much. Against oath you're probably just going to lose to a resolved Oath regardless and i'm more willing than most to just kinda punt that matchup.

the benefit of going without red would be that you have more stable mana against wastelands, easier decisions fetching, and another utility slot in the deck. I'd like to fit in another fast mana (spirit guide 2 most likely) and lean on kambal and thalia harder.

that RUG list looks real spicy though! lumberjack is a sweet card and is that edric hiding in the corner?? love it! I am real interested in hearing about all those 1-ofs and how they perform after more matches. Dack, Ooze, Scryb ranger, green sun all are real interesting. My fear is that giving up on the hatebears is going to really cost you against PO which seems to be everywhere.

@kaluma I don’t really expect it to be better, just wanted to explore the options.

@kaluma so if we remove Anger and Taiga (and Ingot Chewer from the board)- we add Savannah and Kambal to the main, and another Decay to the board? Maybe change Ruby to another ESG as well?
That makes us a little better vs Outcome and Storm in G1 and gives us another way to kill Cages, Priests, RiPs, Oaths, and Mentors.

last edited by wfain

@wfain that is exactly what i'm going to try, except maybe nature's claim instead of decay.

My reasoning for adding another trop vs savannah was for the shops matchup in which we most certainly want a back up blue source to cast energy flux right? Not to mention Wonder has been an allstar vs shops as well. No blue decks are running wastelands anymore except Bug fish/Bug Leo but we wouldn't want white vs them anyways.

Edit: I just like kambal in general as his life loss really helps with the beatdown plan regardless if they are on PO or Storm or not.

last edited by bleedth3sky

I was just looking at the cards with Aftermath (I’d never seen them before) and I was thinking Driven//Despair might be a solid SB card against Outcome? I wonder if it would only matter in games we’re attacking for lethal anyway though?

@wfain The best one is probably Failure (Failure/Comply) if you wanna go that route. It gives you a turn where the opponent can't cast PO/Tinker/Tendrils/Dread Return or whatever you're afraid of.

last edited by fsecco

@bleedth3sky I'm playing 2 savannah, 2 trop, 2 bayou, forest, cradle, 6 fetches, 2 spirit guides, 4 mox + lotus as the mana base right now for the red-less build. I agree having double blue is important with energy flux as your shops plan (and wonder as you said). and there are other annoying wasteland decks like landstill or BUG/ czech pile that also attack your lands, plus the fact that you spew lands with bazaar a lot of the time - redundancy is really nice. Also, i never really liked riftstone portal as it is too cute and situational as well as awkward against some SB cards you face.

played a couple leagues the last few days without anger and went 2-3 then 4-1. first league was all oath decks and managed to go 1-2 against them and all the games felt surprisingly close. lots of oaths on an empty board without orchard and then long drawn out games maneuvering around that. squee shined one game with bazaar. really though, even tho the games were close, it made it clear that a lot of things had to go right to even stay in the game. second league played combo, czech, eldrazi and shops twice. lost to montolio one match, but overall felt really good. I like most of what the deck is trying to do 🙂

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