How to beat Shops



  • 4 Shattering Sprees and the mana to cast them reliably.

    Hurkyl's Recall and a broken end game.

    Energy Flux in shells with the mana to cast it reliably and the support cards to deal with the few remaining threats Shops can leverage (i.e. Removal or Waste effects).

    Everything else doesn't actually work as well as you think it does.



  • elesh norn usually works



  • I've been using By Force in the sideboard of my Jeskai deck on modo, and it's a real beating for them.



  • No one has mentioned Wrath of God or Supreme Verdict. A Jeskai, LandStill or Xerox deck can play a Supreme Verdict. Are the 4 mana cost board wipers just bad? They do help against BUG and Eldrazi too.

    No one mentioned Moat either and that card was a factor in 2016 and 2015 in the top 8.

    I also do not see any mention of Dack Fayden. Is he a help against this deck? Is there a way to use him optimally?


  • TMD Supporter

    @moorebrother1 Most of these are half measures. Board sweepers are great, if you survive long enough to use them and can get most of their threats. Moat is great, if they don't machine gun you down with ballista or make a dozen thopters. Dack Fayden is great, if they don't have a ravager or a big board presence.

    Sometimes they cement a win, sometimes they are air.


  • TMD Supporter

    @moorebrother1 said in How to beat Shops:

    No one has mentioned Wrath of God or Supreme Verdict. A Jeskai, LandStill or Xerox deck can play a Supreme Verdict. Are the 4 mana cost board wipers just bad? They do help against BUG and Eldrazi too.

    No one mentioned Moat either and that card was a factor in 2016 and 2015 in the top 8.

    I also do not see any mention of Dack Fayden. Is he a help against this deck? Is there a way to use him optimally?

    If you don't seeing anyone making a case for these cards, but would like to see someone make a case for these cards, then why not make a case for these cards yourself?



  • @hierarchnoble Good point. I was trying Moat and it is too slow in today's meta. I like Supreme Verdict but Balance is better. The issue with these cards is that if they get a Sphere down these options are too slow where Fragmentize or Swords to Plowshare or even Lightning Bolt give you some room to play through the threats.

    I was testing against Shops last night and the new Traxos build is very scary. The Null Rod does not hurt Shop like it used to once this guy is on the board. If you live to turn 3 or 4 then a Supreme Verdict may be you best bet since a Hurkly's Recall only slows this down for a turn based on how much damage you have taken.

    Dack Fayden is not as good because of Ballista for obvious reasons and being a 3 drop can be hard if they get a Sphere down or a Phyrexian Revoker.

    Paradoxical had an edge against this deck just based on speed. Dredge actually does fairly well, unless they land a Wasteland. So, Dredge players may want to try Pithing Needle.

    Jeskai was a rough match up for so many reasons. Being lower to the ground helps but if they see a Traxos or an Overseer it become a slaughter. I am off of Oath for the moment so I did not test it.



  • The best advice I can offer is play wastelands and Hurkyls. Hurkyl's just wins games with ease. Dak is also nuts.

    Blue decks have gotten so greedy they have stopped playing wastelands which hurts. Them a ton in my opinion. U/R fish was able to slaughter shops back when we ran 4x Chalice, 4x Trinisphere, 3x Crucible in every list.

    Blowing up a workshop can devastate a workshop player. It has gotten to the point where I don't even maindeck crucible because I have no fear of my stuff even being blow up outside the mirror



  • @yespuhyren I have tried playing Wastelands and in most decks and they really clutter the deck up. Way back when, I used to play Noble Fish and you are correct that Wasteland was awesome against Shop. Now if I play Jeskai or some other mid-range deck Wastelands are a liability.

    I tried Blood Moon too and those are just so-so against Shop. I think attacking the board and messing with their tempo is how you have to win.



  • I used to be firmly in the Energy Flux camp on this one. (I still think Flux is just crushing, and at least in Control Oath, which runs a bit mana dense, it's pretty good. They can make all the thopter tokens they like.) However, watching Rich Shay, and also my wife as they run Xerox, the 1for1 cheap removal game is viable at least. Shattering Spree is probably the best in that vein, since it can be, but isn't limited to being a 1for1. As a passive observer, it does seem that blunting, and finally taking apart their board with spot removal is viable.

    Ancient Grudge bears a mention here.


 

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