Paradoxical Outcome - Deckbuilding Primer
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What is the general thought about Brain Freeze for Paradoxial Outcome decks.
I played Almost Blue for a long time and believe that PO is a natural fit for the deck now Gush is restricted.Furthermore, I really liked the article, there is not enough content on the web in regards to vintage, so keep up the good work.
Greetz Arjan
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@zieby brain freeze is just an inferior win condition due to it being dead when you are stuck with it in your hand early. Cards like mentor, tinker, key provide meaningful value when in your opening hand. This is a reason I dislike tendrils.
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Just got through the article, and thought it was extremely well-written and provided great insight. This bit was a nice touch, too:
"Explaining the power and usage of Gush would take an entire book."
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Yeah good article. One minor thing though: Merchant Scroll can't get Time Walk.
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@griselbrother Yeah that one slipped thru editing and looks like even though it was pointed out SCG never fixed
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@iamactuallylvl1
BF is not as dead as you might think.
It disrupts top deck tutors.
It pitches to FoW.
It feuls Y-win.
And when chained you dont require allot of storm to combo out.
BF should be paired with tormods crypt which is an easy draw with PO and therefore you are preboarded for dredge.
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the primer was super great to read!
i'm trying to play the deck even in legacy, i know is not good as it is in vintage, but it still have some potential imho.
btw i think that the deck need just few but powerful wincon, not more than 3 in total. this because u just want draw bunch of cards in order to protect your finishers.
volt+key and tendrils might be the best one: the first one because are both artifacts and can be bounced with PO and the second because once u go off means that u'll have so many spells to cast.
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@mentor88 I made a version that kind of worked in Legacy with Candelabra, Key and Grim Monolith. It was still a High Tide deck but could go out using Outcome. My mistake was it still being mono-blue. It needed black for discard.
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@moorebrother1 I wonder, has anyone tried Candelabra in the vintage version? Especially when playing Trinket Mage. Obviously super powerful with Academy, pretty good with Library in the early turns. Gives you a way to filter colorless into U when chaining.
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@wfain In my early builds of PO, I used to play one Candelabra but it was never as good as I thought it was going to be. Trinket Mage is clutter in deck that just wants to draw cards and play broken stuff. I am working on an alternate version of PO that is not so dependent on tapping artifacts so I may try Candelabra again for a deck that plays similar to the old Academy deck but that style of deck is just not as good in today's meta-game.
If Fastbond ever gets unrestricted this may work since you ramp quickly in early turns and play things like Helm of Obedience but right now you are racing the Control and Aggro deck so the "play broken stuff" is very important.
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Anyone have any good links to articles about in game strategy? How to win through stony silence? Etc? I’m just getting into vintage and I feel like I can never tell when I should be doing anything (holding back ba going for it).
Also curious about how people feel about playing with Fragmentize vs just going naked for more gas.
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When you are playing the deck, you need to pick a lane. The deck usually has 3 main win conditions in Mentor, Blightsteel Colossus, and sometimes Tendrils of Agony. The match ups against the deck will dictate how you play out the game.
I found that playing any combo deck against control requires 2 modes of play. You are either pushing into everything to exhaust them or you wait for a critical mass and beat them on the stack. If you are against Shop or Aggro you need have to race their tempo or disrupt it. If you are in a combo mirror you have to time it out very carefully.
I know these are very generic tips but there is no one size fits all with this deck. This deck is full of nuance that makes each hand different and difficult to play. I personally find that you must be very careful when you mulligan because losing any cards really hurts this deck.
When you commit to a strategy you need to fully commit. If you are going to race a deck you cannot take your foot off of the gas. If you are going for the battle on the stack you must read every card played on the stack and be very tactically about your goal.
I found at SCG Con I lost games where I lost my focus and changed my strategy. I had outs in my matches that I lost and I did not commit to those outs and I ended up losing winnable games.
The good thing about this deck is that you are rarely out of the game even against Stoney Silence and Energy Flux. Against Stoney Silence your Tolarian Academy is critical and you need have a mix of Fragmentize and Disenchant or a bounce spell. I personally played one Echoing Truth and one Fragmentize main deck.
Disenchant on the sideboard does cost one more and this is a big deal but it cannot be Mental Misstepped so it is a good card to use against decks that depend on Null Rod/Stoney Silence. The Echoing Truth helps a lot against multiples which players will stack against you.
There are always going to be hate cards you have to play through and every player that is trying to stop you will name some card that they will use to stop you. You must just commit to playing through and have a clear strategy to do so.
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@moorebrother1
Thank you very much for the detailed reply! As much as you say you can’t get too deep on the nuances, I found your broad descriptions of macro strategy very helpful.I’m going to be playing my first paper event with the deck in a couple of weeks. I’ll try and take some good notes and report back after.
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I have found 3-4 Cloud of Fairies to be a good card. It turns off Color Moxen into blue, is "free", and obv synergy with Academy. Helps a little vs Rod/Stony as Mana enabler. Can be a chump blocker in dire scenarios. Pitch to FoW. Get around Misstep.
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@pnutbutrsangwich said in Paradoxical Outcome - Deckbuilding Primer:
@moorebrother1
Thank you very much for the detailed reply! As much as you say you can’t get too deep on the nuances, I found your broad descriptions of macro strategy very helpful.I’m going to be playing my first paper event with the deck in a couple of weeks. I’ll try and take some good notes and report back after.
Oh no. Are you bringing this to an event in about a week? I am too - and I'm similarly new to the deck.
Anyone have any good play video of the deck? I'm still trying to figure out the ideal lines and watching always helps
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@walked I am streaming all my challenges on twitch and loading the vods to youtube. The PO decks I stream are a little gimmicky but the lines are the similar. Maybe they will help you out.
http://themanadrain.com/topic/2120/iamactuallylvl1-youtube-vintage-challenge-recordings
