N.Y.S.E. Open VI?



  • We're coming up on the time of year when I'd have to lock down the venue for an N.Y.S.E. Open the following year, and I'm considering it.

    I haven't played Vintage in more than a year now, but I'm beginning to feel the itch, and that makes me more willing to consider the incredible time sink that is the N.Y.S.E. Open.

    The biggest stumbling block is going to be the prize support. Last year, I got hurt on us having 131 players (and fighting to get the last two dozen or so whom we got). The prize support was expensive enough last year, now it's impossible. In order to offer last year's prize event, the entry (assuming 130 players), would have to be something like $220 per, and that's with (literally) zero margin for error.

    I'm all for high-roller events, but that's a bridge too far.

    Does the event lose too much of its mystique if it's for cash? At the very least, the entry could go back down to $100 per, and the prizes would scale easily enough.

    Thoughts?

    It's very early in the process, so I'm a little more open to ideas than I would be later in the year.



  • Personally I do not think that it would lose any of the appeal if it were cash instead of cards.



  • Maybe instead of the P9, you could do something like the Legacy duel for duals where the prizes are sets of dual lands...or at this rate, just ONE dual land, since an underground sea costs what a mox cost last year :/


  • TMD Supporter

    Any event is better than no event.

    And a large tournament of paper Vintage, with proxies allowed, has plenty of mystique.

    Your efforts are very appreciated @Prospero. I'd be very sad to see the NYSE be a thing of the past.



  • While it's going to be hard for me to make it (to put it lightly), I just wanted to say that for the times I did, the prize support was a very minor part of the event. I would say that the main attraction was how well the event was run, the fun times to be had by all, and above all else, the fact that it was a large paper Vintage event, of which there aren't very many left! The prize support is secondary to being able to run the event, IMO.

    For anybody on the fence, definitely consider going. This event was one of the best Vintage events I've ever been to.



  • The NYSE brand is so well established that I’d assume people will come regardless of what, exactly, the prize pool is. Cash should be fine.


  • TMD Supporter

    I am living in Barcelona and I have to tell you we do not have events like this any more and we ALL miss them.

    I would definitely come if possible just for the joy of it. The brand you have is well beyond the prize support: Organization, great playing area, security, coverage...the idea of having a big Vintage event is enough and the community should respond accordingly.

    The price tag on paper cards is impossible atm, so cash and maybe an additional commemorative piece (artist sketch or anything like that) would do the trick if you want to keep the mystique as you say :)

    All in all, if you are attending an awesome event of this kind for the card prizes, you are in the wrong format!


  • TMD Supporter

    What better a prize than cash? People love this event and how well you run it and will attend



  • Battle for blue

    1 - sapphire (3,000)
    1 - ancestral. (2,800)
    3 - time walk (2,500)
    4 - library (1,600)
    5 - 8: underground sea (3,200/ 800 each)

    Based on SCG’s absurd NM prices this would be

    13,100 dollars in prizes. This means 131 players at 125 a piece covers is the prizes with 3,275 left for judging etc.

    Granted 9th through 16th should be something like a tundra (3,200/400 each) and 17th through 32nd is a force of will from ema (1,760/110 each) and youre getting up there, but still prizes that are absurdly good for todays market. Now, estimate using REAL market numbers, and not SCG inflated numbers, and you MAY have some room. Id be happy to play for the above pool.

    Sidenote: DO NOT GIVE AWAY A FUCKIN’ LOTUS. WHENEVER ONE IS UP FOR GRABS @Montolio SHOWS UP AND WINS IT. OTHERS NEED A FAIR CHANCE!!!



  • Power/Shops/Bazaar have quadrupled in price since the NYSE started while the entry fee hasn't. That makes hosting something at the original entry to prize ratio extremely unfair to the TO which nobody wants. Meanwhile, the quantity & diversity of very desirable cards has increased, as Soly hit on. For instance, things like NM foil Cavern of Souls, foil Mirrodin Chalice of the Void, minor dual lands, or foil Scars Mox Opal are as pricy as the Bazaar I was fortunate enough to win at my first NYSE in 2013. That was my first out of state Magic event since the Urza's Saga prerelease at Neutral Ground. I had such a good time I decided to do more of them and having Vintage being part of my life again for the past 5 years has been enhancing in so many ways.

    I'm cool with either prize scale-down, entry fee increase, or a combination of both. It's important to me that you be rewarded for putting so much effort into organizing this. As I see it, the more TO's are rewarded for creating these events, the more likely it is they will continue to do so and that makes all of us direct beneficiaries. It's also right on a karmic level, which for me also matters.

    One point I would add is that regarding entry fee, the math is very different for the great many of us who travel from out of state. For instance, a $20 increase to $120 might seem like a 20% increase but in reality when people spend to travel, the total cost of the trip could be more like $250 (and that's just driving without hotel) which means a $20 entry increase is is less than 10% of the entire trip. And that's even less for people who fly in. So if the entry fee increases, for a lot of us, it's just the equivalent of ordering an extra fancy drink or appetizer on a vacation, which is stuff that is essentially anticipated and already pre-factored into the trip. I have no problem with that at all. In fact, I'd prefer an entry fee increase to maintain the scale/prestige of the event rather than a lower fee that risks harming the organizer.



  • I won't make this year's tournament because I have to buy back into a proxied deck. However, if this happens next year I will make it. I wouldn't be as concerned with the prize pool as I would be with being able to play in a large Vintage tournament. Who knows what eternal staples will do in terms of value, but I have always been interested in playing for cool staples in general or cash. Anything that is no longer easy to find or on the reserve list and Vintage playable is cool, or like Brian said, foil staples would catch people's interest.



  • I'm sure people would be just as happy with cash, but should Power be what you want - an option could be, and I do realize this might seem taboo on here, CE/IE cards as prizes. They certainly have value.



  • @Brass-Man, I tried creating a poll initially and was told I didn't have the permission to do so. I really need to do a poll here. Help?



  • @prospero that's weird, polls shouldn't be locked for anyone. I can try adding it myself for now. Message me with what you want in the poll, and where you want to put it!



  • Given that I am unlikely to prize any event, I'd greatly prefer that an event be affordable over having a good prize pool. Hell, I'd easily pay up to $20 for a good event with no payout at all.

    That said, based on previous events, I'm unlikely to ever make an NYSE just because of how difficult it is to physically get there :/


  • TMD Supporter

    The real money question is how expensive the Jack & Cokes are in the VFW hall that you hold the event in.



  • +1 for cash prize at a reasonable entry fee (~$100 range)


  • TMD Supporter

    It's kind of neat to win 'trophy' cards but this tournament brings out all the ringers so +1 for "prize structure is irrelevant to me". Would love to attend more of these in the future, regardless.



  • I've skipped the NYSE the last couple of years because I no longer want to travel for just one tournament. Even if the prizes aren't great, a weekend of events is way more appealing. That way if I do bad in the main event there are plenty of fun things to play in.

    I'm at the age now where waking up at the butt crack of dawn and driving home through the night for a one day event is not appealing. I'd rather just make it a long vacation weekend and enjoy my time with other players.

    And multi-day events are awesome! Even if SCG puts on another Vintage event without the prizes they had before, just the privilege of playing 13 rounds over 2 days was awesome. It felt good to make Day 2 Swiss rounds, and it felt better to have a day of Swiss that was clearly the best players in the event.

    I'd love it if the NYSE was more of an experience than a long day for one tournament.

    In the defense of high end prizes, they definitely matter to people without power. Like I don't have dual lands and I'm missing Ancestral, so those things get my attention.

    But at the end of the day I know this is still a game of chance. I view one particular tournament as gambling, but I look at a weekend of activities as plenty of ways to have fun.



  • Nick, you could give out gift cards to Boston Market for first and I would show up to your event. That said, you want to maintain prestige and give prize support that brings the wide swath of players to our small corner of Long island, you need a middle ground. 100-120 per head with a cash prize should accomplish that with the NYSE brand behind it.


 

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