[M19] Open the door, get on the floor everybody Runic Armasaur



  • @evouga I would think this card would be very good against shops, assuming there are any other bullets that kill artifacts. For example, this with some number of Grudges seems like a rough go for shops. Sure there are going to be busted Shops draws that win, but in any game that goes more than a few turns, this thing is going to be a big problem.



  • @vaughnbros said in [M19] Open the door, get on the floor everybody Runic Armasaur:

    @protoaddct Its not really a "finisher". Its a hate "bear" that neutralizes a lot of what Shops wants to do, and has enough utility in other MUs to be potentially MD playable.

    The differences here are really innumerable though

    • larger CMC
    • Needs 2 Green mana
    • Not pitch-able to FOW
    • Proactive instead of reactive (on the stack)
    • Lack of flash (no surprise blocking which is sometimes relevant)
    • Completely reliant on what your opponent plays

    The cost of utility is often really the thing that determines utility. There are countless utility creatures that simply cost to much for the ability. For instance, Ash Zealot is a really good card that sees no play because besides needing 2 red mana, lacking flash means its not a proper answer to some of the cards you would want it against like Yawgs will. Based on CMC and spread of abilities its actually good in theory, but in practice it does not pan out. If the card had flash instead of haste or First strike, or even if it was 1R, it may have seen play. I think this falls into that camp, at least in the vintage context. I suspect in formats where a fair value deck like jund or bant see play, this card will get consideration. I would far rather land this turn 2 on the play in modern than a Knight of the reliquary for instance.



  • While I'm glad they are pushing limits with this P/T, I think in 80% of matchups I'd rather have a Heartwood Storyteller for the same mana cost.



  • Workshop decks doesnt care if opponent draws cards, it's the board state that matters in that matchup, which they usually outplay you fast by state effects you cant use drawn cards through spheres anyway.

    Id compare this to Harsh mentor, which failed to make play.



  • @protoaddct

    Snapcaster is also awful in the Shops MU. I'm not sure why you are comparing them directly as they couldn't be more different in terms of cards, except that they could fall under the "utility creature" scope.

    @YakuzaXRock

    There are actually numerous decks that want to draw cards against shops. Big mana decks, hate bears, ect. that want cards against Shops.



  • @vaughnbros said in [M19] Open the door, get on the floor everybody Runic Armasaur:

    @protoaddct
    Snapcaster is also awful in the Shops MU. I'm not sure why you are comparing them directly as they couldn't be more different in terms of cards, except that they could fall under the "utility creature" scope.

    Someone else made the comparison, not me. Im just pointing out the differences as to why its not comparable, but once again I am not sure I would ever classify Snapcaster as a utility creature considering the role it plans in the decks it is included in.



  • @vaughnbros
    Yeah some defense deck where this biggie just blocks down I guess. But i dont see it happening



  • @yakuzaxrock said in [M19] Open the door, get on the floor everybody Runic Armasaur:

    Workshop decks doesnt care if opponent draws cards, it's the board state that matters in that matchup, which they usually outplay you fast by state effects you cant use drawn cards through spheres anyway.

    Id compare this to Harsh mentor, which failed to make play.

    Except this slows down shops combat phase if you land it turn 1 or 2 against them. Harsh Mentor didn't do that. Its revoker proof card draw. Even if they try to do some tricks to move counters to pump a creature, you'll draw 2-3 cards and stop at least 1-2 turns worth of damage to the face.

    I think because of the 1GG rather than 2G cost, this still doesn't see play. But at 2G I think this would get some more attention.



  • @wagner said in [M19] Open the door, get on the floor everybody Runic Armasaur:

    While I'm glad they are pushing limits with this P/T, I think in 80% of matchups I'd rather have a Heartwood Storyteller for the same mana cost.

    You think if Hearty Woody was a 2/5 he'd get played?



  • @yakuzaxrock said in [M19] Open the door, get on the floor everybody Runic Armasaur:

    Workshop decks doesnt care if opponent draws cards, it's the board state that matters in that matchup, which they usually outplay you fast by state effects you cant use drawn cards through spheres anyway.

    Id compare this to Harsh mentor, which failed to make play.

    I disagree. A creature deck like a junk deck or hatebear deck absolutely wants to draw cards. Notably they want to make a land drop every turn and draw Wastelands, Ghost Quarters and Plows.


 

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