I think it's pretty clear that people are talking over each other in this thread. Despite ironically dubious references to it threads past, the principle of charity is a good one, and I think this thread could use a little more of it.
Could wfain have used less extreme language in his opening post? yeah, sure.
As a player who likes Containment Priest, I felt attacked by the title "Containment Priest isn't good"... is wfain saying I'm an idiot? But even upon brief reflection I realized that no, no he wasn't saying that. He was just saying that he expects the meta to shift a little, and make Priest worse. Which is pretty reasonable and could, in theory lead to a good discussion.
When wfain says "[Cabal Pit is going to be more popular] thanks to LSV" I understand why a player who ran Cabal Pit a few weeks ago might feel attacked or jealous. But was it wfain's intent to say "no one before LSV matters" ? No. Of course not. But I think it's completely reasonable to say that when a well-liked and respsected player does well with a particular card in a very public setting, that card may get more popular.
Now if it was worded differently perhaps drama wouldn't have cropped up. But the fact that it was worded in a provocative way doesn't mean we have to assume the worst. It's possible to just assume that you're not under attack, or to ask clarifying questions until we figure things out.
I'm thinking more and more that real problems on TMD tend to spring from people personally identifying themselves with a topic, argument, idea, card, or most often, a deck, and interpreting any statement about that subject as a serious threat.
In particular, once deck attribution starts sneaking it's way into the conversation, things feel like they get personal very quickly, and it's almost impossible to recover a thread from that point. Note the point in the thread where, unprompted, Stormanimagus says people give Mike Noble credit for creating Noble Fish. Mike (heirarchnoble) responds:
Much love, Noah. I'm the 100% originator of a deck myself, but it too was much more successful in the hands of a better pilot.
"originator of a deck." I don't believe he's even talking about noble fish here, he's bringing a third deck into the discussion. But since we're talking about deck attribution, things get entirely personal, and Stormanimagus felt the need to respond defensively, giving proof for creating the deck that nobody in this thread has claimed he didn't make.
Another classic source of trouble is the word "tier", which, once used, will invariably make someone upset. I'm willing to bet that vaughbros and stormanimagus have the exact same opinion about how good Containment Priest is, but since vaunbros used the term "tier 3" to describe that opinion, and Stormanimagus uses the term "tier 3" differently, a micro-argument popped up there as well.
On the subject of provocative language and making it hard to recover a thread ... once you start making an analogy to racism (or any other politically charged topic), it gets incredibly difficult not to take things the wrong way. Even if it's a perfect analogy, it's pretty hard not to read that in a post and think "wait, now this guy is saying I'm a racist, too?" Once someone feels like they themselves are under attack, they're never going to agree with you ... even if they agree with you.
I could have just deleted this thread (and maybe I should have) but I didn't want to just get rid of it and have everyone think "oh, BrassMan killed this because the other guy got out of hand". A lot of people got out of hand. A thread doesn't go bad when one person is an asshole, a thread goes bad when multiple people take the worst possible interpretation of each other's posts and play off of each other.
Here are some super boring arguments in this thread that nobody actually brought up, and people got defensive over anyway:
- Was LSV the first person to play Cabal Pit in a Dredge deck?
- Are you a bad player if you've run Containment Priest before? (this one was my fault)
- Is LSV a "tech thief"?
- Did Mike Noble invent Noble Fish?
- Did Mike Noble invent (other deck he didn't name)?
- What does the word tier 3 hate mean?
In contrast, here are some genuinely interesting questions that have been raised in this thread:
- How much impact does the appearance of a card on the VSL/a stream have on the metagame?
- If we see an increase in the amount of Cabal Pit in the metagame, how does that affect the card Containment Priest?
- If you're running Containment Priest as part of an anti-Dredge plan, what other cards (if any) are necessary or helpful to run alongside it?
- In a Dredge deck, is Cabal Pit or Barbarian Ring a better anti-Containment Priest card?
Any and all of the second group of questions still have merit, and I'm willing to be that everyone in this thread still has interesting things to say about all four of them .
Let's please make an effort to detatch ourselves a little from our decks and ideas, and to not assume the worst from every post.