Questions about large Vintage tournaments



  • Austin is awesome. Proxies suck. Prizes could be cash, power or brisket.



  • I'll add that, for me, 100 bucks to play is A LOT of money. I could see myself doing it, but man, I'd rather have a smaller prize pool and be able to play several Side events too.



  • @nedleeds said in Questions about large Vintage tournaments:

    Austin is awesome. Proxies suck. Prizes could be cash, power or brisket.

    "How much brisket are you willing to pay out for a mox" is a question I want to be asking in my life.



  • @moorebrother1 Emphasize on slow summers Vintage.



  • @fsecco said in Questions about large Vintage tournaments:

    I'll add that, for me, 100 bucks to play is A LOT of money. I could see myself doing it, but man, I'd rather have a smaller prize pool and be able to play several Side events too.

    The problem for a lot of us who've done this for awhile is that travelling needs to be worthwhile. If I'm flying and paying for an uber and a hotel, I need to have something worth chasing, as far as prizes go.



  • Damn, what a great response. Thanks guys! I'm meeting up with the planning committee tonight, as we'd like to get this finalized and announced within a week. Expect updates soon.

    @nedleeds catered brisket or tacos are being thrown around.



  • @Stuart

    One thing that could offset the cost analysis for a trip would be to also give some history of some of the cool things out of towners could do. I could REALLY see taking a long weekend trip with my wife if there were things we could do together outside my playing magic one day.

    @nedleeds You may think proxies suck (and I tend to mostly agree), but I can't justify 20,000 to re-buy my power at this junction of time. and I'd like to borrow cards for as few events as possible (though as you know, I haven't had trouble in the past).



  • Austin is great.

    More high end Vintage is great.

    I'd try to aim for January/February if I were you; your Northerner friends would be able to escape the cold for a few days, and June-October is packed between the N.Y.S.E., Waterbury, potential future SCG Cons, and Champs. You don't want to split attendance with another T/O.

    Also, I don't know if you have some sweet deals set up, but you can't forget to include venue, judges, etc. The judges for the N.Y.S.E. Open in 2017 were north of $2,000.



  • @nedleeds I too, agree on proxies, but you are talking about cutting literally dozens of players out of the mix if you ran this as sanctioned. Hell i'd wager SCG would have easily pulled over 200 if their event was proxied like the SCG P9 events of old.



  • @p3temangus I think we all agree that using real cards is better and proxies increase the turnout, but I will not travel for a proxy event even with a large prize. The audience tends to be very different and I get very concerned about theft.

    I appreciate that not everyone has 20K - 40K in cards but playing old school has shown me that if you want to be in the format you find a way.

    That's just my opinion.



  • Cheers guys.

    @13NoVa that's a great idea. We should put together a "welcome to Austin" document for attendees.

    @Prospero the venue is taken care of; a member of the team owns a few clubs in town, so he's gonna host us at one of them. Judges are a bit trickier. We're friends with a local judge who can probably help us out, but depending on the size of the event, 1 might not be enough.

    Follow-up question: does running an event on a Sunday make this a non-starter?



  • @stuart Sunday is very doable. Would there be any Saturday events, like a Legacy or Old School?



  • @13nova said in Questions about large Vintage tournaments:

    @fsecco said in Questions about large Vintage tournaments:

    I'll add that, for me, 100 bucks to play is A LOT of money. I could see myself doing it, but man, I'd rather have a smaller prize pool and be able to play several Side events too.

    The problem for a lot of us who've done this for awhile is that travelling needs to be worthwhile. If I'm flying and paying for an uber and a hotel, I need to have something worth chasing, as far as prizes go.

    I need to have an event with a lot of options. For people that are trained in Vintage, that play it regularly and are probably playing for the top spots, like you, great. For people like me, who live in a place where Vintage is non-existent, that have no computer to play MTGO and so play Vintage 3 times a year, it's waaaay more relevant to have a bunch of great side-events and a main event I can play without spending all my money.

    (also, think what would happen if you had to pay 500 dollars for the main event, which is kinda how much it costs for me, regarding money conversions - but that's a problem I'll be one of the only ones to have, since I live in a different country)

    @stuart said in Questions about large Vintage tournaments:

    Follow-up question: does running an event on a Sunday make this a non-starter?

    No problem, but I wouldn't travel for a 1-day event and would rather prioritize those larger ones with more days to do stuff.



  • I think you'd be best off modelling this like Waterbury, where there's the 'saturday main event' and then the sunday side event.

    This way, folks like myself who would spend sunday hanging out with their wives/friends can still play saturday.



  • @stuart Glad to hear your venue is sorted. Speaking from experience, it can be a source of incredible frustration and expense.

    Magic judges have a site:

    https://apps.magicjudges.org/accounts/login/?next=/

    I'd create an advertisement of the event on the site, give the particulars, including compensation, and take applications, if I were you. This is what I did in years past, when I was a few judges short.

    It's usually tough to gauge how many players you're going to get before the event, but you really do need to get a ballpark estimate. If you're north of 100 players, you're going to need a head judge (preferably level three, level two with great experience if that's impossible), some number of floor judges, and a scorekeeper. My venue is broken up, which results in needing an extra 1-2 judges. Still, I've always erred on the side of having 1-2 judges more than necessary, mostly because it's such a disaster when judge calls don't get answered efficiently (and result in delays for everyone with longer round extensions).

    Also, for whatever it's worth, leave some financial breathing room for yourself if you don't get the turnout that you'd hoped for. There is nothing worse than spending an inordinate amount of time working on an event, and getting blown out by attendance the day of. When you're working with higher entry fees, the loss of a few players can be difficult. Lose 10-20 and it feels really bad, really quickly. If the turnout is what you expected, you can always add more support back in. If the turnout is less, taking a bath on a few thousand dollars will be a bad way to start the day.



  • Thanks @Prospero - more great advice!

    Re. turnouts and financial losses: we are planning on doing some sort of pre-reg, so we can get a feel for the headcount. We might also cap it at X players.


  • TMD Supporter

    @stuart said in Questions about large Vintage tournaments:

    Hey guys! The Romancing The Stones crew has been throwing around ideas for hosting a larger Vintage tournament, and I wanted some feedback on a few questions:

    • If you were to fly to a large event, how far in advance would you want/need to know about the event?

    3 Months minimum, 4-6 is better.

    • How good of a prize pool would you want to justify flying to an event? (This is obviously a little bit dependent on entry fees, obviously.)

    4 pieces of power minimum in the Top 8 or value equivalent.

    • How many big Vintage events would you likely attend in one year? Vintage Champs, NYSE, The Waterbury, and The Power 9 Series already exist; is there any demand for another?

    I can only do 3 or so, so it would have to be a year in which I'm not going to a Waterbury or there is no P9 series.

    • Is Austin, TX an appealing destination? (I will judge the shit out of you if you say no.)

    Yes



  • @moorebrother1 Eh, the community is so hypersensitive to theft that I'm more worried at larger events than 1-off 150 person vintage events. Hell, I was more worried at SCG Con than at NYSE, Waterbury or eternal extrvaganza combined.

    There's a will there's a way, and theirs 20g's in cardboard...I'm sorry to say, the long term survival of competitive vintage involves proxies, and it has for 15 years. Most American based old school allows CE/IE. No sanctioned vintage event does, and that represents a substantial difference in cost to enter the format.



  • @p3temangus Maybe Vintage should allow CE/IE cards. Those cards have already spiked. I do not mind proxies at my local card shop, I just do not like them for events across the country. I know that it makes the event bigger, and you even get more innovation but you also get more net decks and people who just dabble.



  • @stuart said in Questions about large Vintage tournaments:

    Hey guys! The Romancing The Stones crew has been throwing around ideas for hosting a larger Vintage tournament, and I wanted some feedback on a few questions:

    • If you were to fly to a large event, how far in advance would you want/need to know about the event?
    • How good of a prize pool would you want to justify flying to an event? (This is obviously a little bit dependent on entry fees, obviously.)
    • How many big Vintage events would you likely attend in one year? Vintage Champs, NYSE, The Waterbury, and The Power 9 Series already exist; is there any demand for another?
    • Is Austin, TX an appealing destination? (I will judge the shit out of you if you say no.)
    1. A few months. Need to schedule a day off work, even for a weekend event as I'd need to fly down the day before. Need to clear calendar with wife which means a day in the hospital.

    2. If I'm flying, it should be power involved for top 8 with solid prizes for top 16. Door prizes etc. For the cost of a ticket and hotel stay, I could buy a piece of power. But then I dont get to play.

    3. big events: 1-2 at the most.

    4. Austin is perfectly fine. In-laws live there so the wife and kids could go visit her family while I play Magic.


 

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