@Prospector In my opinion luck is a huge factor of the game, but there are ways to minimize how much luck is needed, the main way is card filtering and card draw, but even so luck is ever present, sometimes you draw a pocket of lands, sometimes you get all the wrong answers, it happens, so to answer your question, you can never eliminate luck, but it can be reduced, but only slightly, but again this statement, and the topic in general, is peoples opinions.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

I'm going to leave that here and slowly back away.

@AmbivalentDuck Dude... awesome! That is a great post. Wow. Metaphysics for the win! I want to mail you a foil copy of the Tao Te Ching autographed by Lao Tzu or something... (Unfortunately my I only have one copy and I keep it in the little library beside my toilet... which, if you've read it, is exactly where the Great Master would have one keep it...)

last edited by Topical_Island

@Khahan I agree that to some extent this is a semantic discussion, but I think that's kinda the nature of the beast here.

For me, I don't agree that what we call it... or rather, how we conceptualize it in our deeper belief system... is irrelevant at all. How we conceive of things in language absolutely has tangible effects on our behavior, on the pattern of our thoughts. So again, I'm saying that worse players (more specifically, players who don't play quite as sharply, talk much more about... and waste much more time thinking about... luck. Which as I've said, at least for myself, I believe in like I believe the Orphic Mysteries... not at all. But its a cool idea... Sweet cosmological Princeton websites aside.)

@Brass-Man Completely agree with this post.

Several times I've had opponents snark about how lucky I was with topdecks, Mana Crypt flips, etc... and as you say silence is the best response.

I think there is benefit to comments like, "it worked out for you this game, but in general I think it is a mistake to make play X against my deck; past opponents have had more luck doing Y," but I'd only make such remarks to opponents I know and trust to take them constructively.

@Brass-Man, I'm not so sure this is true. I mean, nobody ever has made a new archetype before, you filthy netdecker. 😉

In all seriousness, luck is the most important factor of those you should never focus on too much. Change what you can control, not what you can't, and ignore anybody prone to focusing on variance.

@evouga good callout - if my opponent seems like a nice guy, and he seems like he's in a good mood, I'm usually pretty happy to chat after the match - particularly if they're a new player. If the player is obviously very new and the match was a blowout, I'll sometimes offer to look through their deck and see if anything stands out that they could change.

In the case where an opponent is obviously upset though, talking about the match can usually only make things worse.

@matori Thanks for posting, I like the chart showing luck and skill as different dimensions with different games on different points - as Smmenen says I've framed this in the wrong way.

Luck? No such non sense. Its about skill and probability.
Deck building skill
Timing
Role assessment
Probability of drawing certain card(s) based on number of said card(s) in one's deck. Etc.

My two cents anyway. Cant sleep 😞

@Ten-Ten said:

Luck? No such non sense. Its about skill and probability.
Probability of drawing certain card(s) based on number of said card(s) in one's deck. Etc.

But again, isn't luck just the end result of drawing those cards - good luck=got the cards I need when I need them. Bad luck=didn't get it?

But if you're a good enough player, you're just too good for luck to matter and you just always have it , that's how @Brass-Man does it!

@Khahan nope. Still probability.
Also: http://www.mathsisfun.com/data/probability-events-independent.html

I keep in mind probability whenever building a deck. Especially since my decks aren't powered, the consequences are magnified against powered decks as the probabilities are constantly changing as the game progresses. That's not luck, positive nor negative.

I like this topic. There was one in the archived manadrain, cant quite remember the title though.

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