Is Old School killing paper Vintage?

@stuart It might just be regional start with smaller groups in the beginning similar to Old School too. These events did not start out at 80+ they grew and they grew fast.

Most people want to play the cards that they own with like minded people. I think if I could convince the local shop owner I know to do a yearly event and I think she would do it then we could draw 30 - 40 in the first year or two and grow it out from there.

Regionally, I know my area has Battle Creek, Cleveland, Toronto and Detroit. I think if a few others like your region does the same we could growth it out similar to Old School.

The people who want EV can play in a GP for all I care.

last edited by moorebrother1

@hrishi said in Is Old School killing paper Vintage?:

To your post's conclusion, I remember a little while ago I was hoping this format would take off, because it's essentially what you're asking for!

This is what I want. Sadly it doesn't seem to have any following, since even the facebook link is dead. Nothing turns up on google.

@moorebrother1 said in Is Old School killing paper Vintage?:

This might be for you

This seems interesting. I might miss Brainstorm and FoW but I'll give it a try.

Regarding prizes, what motivates Old School players may not be very similar to what motivates Vintage players. There is a big overlap between the formats, but I get the impression that Old School has a more relaxed vibe than Vintage. People might be inclined to attend Old School events for small prizes just to be part of the event. But for Vintage, you might need unique and/or higher-value prizes (like alternate art cards) to overcome the opportunity cost of having to travel, spend money, and so on, to get to an event, when players can instead play MTGO or XMage almost for free at home.

Old School also has that card flipping aspect that requires players to use physical cards, whereas the gameplay aspect of Vintage has been comprehensively programmed for the computer.

@nower1990 I find the idea that there has to value kind of ridiculous. If paper events are only at the BIG scale then you have 4 of them a year like we have now with 100 - 120 and Eternal Weekend being the BIG one in the US anyway.

If we copy the Old School model then we get 30 - 50 person events regionally about once every other month and if it goes well once a month for regions like East coast, Midwest, Central, Southwest, and West coast.

Is this easy to do - no. The way I see if people are sitting on cards and want to play them then this will be the model unless paper is only a 4 event cycle in the US.

last edited by moorebrother1

@moorebrother1 said in Is Old School killing paper Vintage?:

Based on all of comments to this thread maybe Vintage should take page from Old School and hold more regional events with very small prize pool and the proceeds going mostly to charity.

The Old School events are getting more that 80 players and they are drawing players from all over the country. If there are issues getting a monthly event fired in local areas maybe do a yearly or bi-yearly event to get a better draw. If this was done on a regional level we could have more events with more people. The EV would be next to zero but there would be more paper Vintage played.

This is something I could get behind. I know some local card store owners would be down with this my area.

I dunno, I've run an annual full-proxy charity Vintage event the last two years with a small prize pool in an area that doesn't get a ton of Vintage events, and haven't broken the 20 player mark either time. I really marketed the hell out of it this year too, so I don't know that what you're describing is the solution.

@revengeanceful Then, maybe it just me that wants a change. From my feedback in other posts a lot players like just playing on MTGO.

But, the feedback in this post says that there is audience for paper that wants something like the Old School event model.

Not sure how to fit that square peg into that round hole but I feel like something needs to happen. I do not think Star City Games will keep feeding the beast with only 120 person turnout for full power.

The NYSC was cancelled and my local event is not breaking 16 anymore. People are very sick of the format right now and it is showing in the turnout for paper. The Vintage league on online usually is about 100 people and the challenges draw about 50 or so per week.

If I could figure out a way to get one event in my region per year and convince the guys in Cleveland to do one then that would be 2 regional events. Then, maybe the Battle Creek guys do one too. This is similar to the number of Old School events my my area. It might work.

I don't care about prize support but:

  • If I am paying a substantial fee to play, then I expect there to be support. Renting space is expensive and it all compounds on itself

  • I won't endure the expense of substantial travel (requiring hotel and likely airfare) for a small event or for no added incentive

  • The added incentive of title was always the big draw for me at eternal weekend. Winning the title of world champion is worth so much more than credit, art, or cards

I would say that Old School might have some influence on turnout, but I think calling it the reason is not accurate. I think that many people are just not as interested because the meta is not interesting anymore (for some - like me). I expect that will not always be true. These things shift all the time. In the interim, I'd rather spend my time on a format that I enjoy more at the moment.

In a sense, I may have gotten out of Vintage had it not been for Old School. I've certainly been tempted to sell out with the crazy price spikes of the last few years but my love for Old School has kept my cards in my hands. I know part of that spike is due to Old School in the first place, but if I hadn't picked it up myself, I'd be far more tempted to cash out.

I think the allure for many Vintage players was a stagnant metagame and the opportunity to play with cards of their youth, or familiar cards of duration.

The sets of the last 3+ years have been so powerful, that almost every other set, some Vintage stalwart is being pushed out by a newer, less familiar card. It's a changing of the guard. Just look at some of the most powerful cards in decks right now: PO, Inspector, Mentor, Hangarback, Ballista, Hollow One. That's a lot of old frame cards being replaced by new frames.

For some players, the new and exciting cards are interesting and inspiring.
For other players, seeing a card like Triskelion or Mana Drain become obsolete is upsetting. That portion of the metagame (for now) has gone to Old School.

last edited by joshuabrooks

@serracollector I agree that Old School can be extremely budget. I played MonoBlack with a borrowed CE Mox Jet at the Madison Offensiven(58 players I think) and won, and at the time the deck probably cost about 50 dollars. The entire deck could be bought in 4th editoon, other than Sol Ring, Hymns, and Order of the Ebon Hand.

@moorebrother1 a group of us just started playing vintage again after a LONG hiatus. I'm fortunate to live in the general pittsburgh area and will be able to attend EW this year. Beyond that are there any other regional type events like you described in this area throughout the year? Thanks!

@ebgmtg Not really, there is the The Mana Drain Open (Waterbury) in Connecticut, NYSC in New York, and Eternal Weekend. This year Star City did a power nine tournament in Roanoke, VA but we do not know if it will continue.

I am going to speak with some people in my local area and try to plan at least start a yearly regional event. There was an event at RIW Hobbies where we normally play for a Time Walk in June and that event only drew in 26 people.

I want to get at least 30 to 40 but I guess if I could get that group of 26 to play in a small EV event with prizes like playmats and a trophy it would be a start.

last edited by moorebrother1

@moorebrother1 said in Is Old School killing paper Vintage?:

@ebgmtg Not really, there is the The Mana Drain Open (Waterbury) in Connecticut, NYSC in New York, and Eternal Weekend. This year Star City did a power nine tournament in Roanoke, VA but we do not know if it will continue.

I think there's another one already scheduled for december.

@moorebrother1 said in Is Old School killing paper Vintage?:

@fsecco They have not announced a power nine event

I believe they said there wouldn't be one in December. That it was likely to be a once a year thing if it went well.

@nedleeds Hum... there's a SCG Con but no Vintage? Pff

@fsecco said in Is Old School killing paper Vintage?:

@nedleeds Hum... there's a SCG Con but no Vintage? Pff

That was by design. They don't want to have a bad showing, and thereby doom P9 series. Rather, everyone said they should wait until next June to bring back the P9 series.

@fsecco said in Is Old School killing paper Vintage?:

@nedleeds Hum... there's a SCG Con but no Vintage? Pff

I think it's smart. The December timeframe for the adult Vintage crowd is unlikely to draw from out of town (to Roanoke anyway). It follows Eternal Weekend US by a month or so. As stated elsewhere in the thread the target for a high dollar paper Vintage event aren't 'grinding' every week or month. This SCGCON has a focus on the Magic players who 'grind' their circuit week to week driving, car pooling and slumming from event to event. So modern is a big focus.

June is a nice mid-point in the year for a large, high entry fee, North American Vintage event.

@nedleeds I'm thankful they're not doing it December; I'd be bummed when it inevitably gets a tiny turnout and they never do it again. June I'd consider going back for next year.

Looking at past years you have: EW EU in April, TMD Open in May, SCG CON in June, NYSE in July, EW Asia in August, EW NA in November and Nebraska's War in December.
Some of those almost overlap, why is all the love going to Q2 and Q4 only?

last edited by Log
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