A New and Interesting Take on Oath



  • Hello, I haven't paid attention to the Vintage scene for a long time, I put a list together that I brewed up and would like some thoughts on the list. It goes for more of a Prison aspect with a combo finish. Ever since Damping Sphere was spoiled I wanted to try it out as it hampers both Workshops and Combo in a single, easily castable card.

    Here is the list:

    Mana (25):
    4 Savannah
    4 Bayou
    4 Mana Confluence
    4 Forbidden Orchard
    Strip Mine
    Black Lotus
    Mox Sapphire
    Mox Jet
    Mox Emerald
    Mox Ruby
    Mox Pearl
    Mana Crypt
    Sol Ring

    Creatures (2):
    2 Sun Titan

    Prison (8):
    3 Null Rod
    3 Damping Sphere
    1 Solitary Confinement
    Trinisphere

    Removal (8):
    4 Abrupt Decay
    3 Ancient Grudge
    1 Nihil Spellbomb

    Draw / Tutor (14):
    4 Oath of Druids
    4 Preordain
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Memory's Journey
    Demonic Tutor
    Vampiric Tutor
    Ancestral Recall
    Ponder

    Planeswalkers (3):
    3 Saheeli Rai

    Sideboard:
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Blazing Archon
    1 Detention Sphere
    1 Damping Sphere
    1 Energy Flux
    1 Sorcerer's Spyglass

    The deck plays a lot of prison feeling cards, a lot of removal and then has the Saheeli combo finish. What are everyone's thoughts on my wacky brew?



  • @msg67183 that’s a very interesting approach. Have you gotten to try it out?



  • @wfain not yet. I was wondering if it would be worth picking up the cards for. I play Online, the deck would be pretty cheap but I don't want to just spend money to not have a semi viable deck, you know?



  • @msg67183 that was my dilemma when I started working on Survival! That paid of pretty well though!

    I wonder if some number of Assassins Trophy would be more useful than Abrupt Decay? I also think having WL/Strip Mine could be very important to help execute your plan.



  • @wfain why? I understand that Trophy doesn't have a CMC requirement but it isn't uncounterable, and what are you hitting in Vintage that doesn't get hit by Decay, that you really care about, a side from Leyline of the Void, Witchbane Orb, and Leyline of Sanctity?



  • @msg67183 Other Oath creatures, TKS, Lodestone, Bazaar, Library of Alexandria, Academy, Hollow One, JtMS, Teferi all come to mind.



  • @msg67183 jtms, tezzeret and some other walkers. However for your prisony build iam not sure how much the extra land they might get works against that.
    I support having strip and wastes in there if you want to control the game by mana denial



  • @aelien well I didn't know that Trophy hits Lands, my bad. I haven't paid attention to much Magic related lately. Adding Wastes and Trophy just makes the deck too expensive for my taste. Thank you all for the assistance but I'm not looking to break the bank to play vintage for fun. When I used to play Vintage online, I played Dredge but even that has gotten pretty ridiculous cost wise. Maybe I will just stick to Pauper.



  • I played the Saheeli Oath deck for a while. I played it on paper and online, and it is much harder to play than it looks. Your build is interesting in its goal but difficult in its strategic execution.

    Oath is designed mainly as a control deck and adding a combo element or a prison element can be effective but adding both is very hard to pull off.

    Dredge will be a very difficult match up and Snapcaster control decks will be bad match up for this deck. I think you will find that Shops is much more resilient to your hate cards than you think. Wasteland hurts you a lot and Forbidden Orchard is a liability.



  • I think you don't want 4x of 2 duals, i think you want a couple duals and some fetches? A blue dual too, because of your cantrips.

    Chalice is definitely missing.

    Damping Sphere only hurts shops when it's down very early.



  • @sovarius said in A New and Interesting Take on Oath:

    I think you don't want 4x of 2 duals, i think you want a couple duals and some fetches? A blue dual too, because of your cantrips.

    Chalice is definitely missing.

    Damping Sphere only hurts shops when it's down very early.

    +1
    I'm starting to wonder if most decks in the format should be playing chalice x1 on the play. Its very strong.



  • 8 artifact mana sources, 3 null rods, 1 brainstorm, 9 rounds ... seems like the usual Oath issue of drawing the wrong half or your deck gets amplified. You are also now crushed by Wasteland even worse. If the Rods are to beat Outcome just play Collective Brutality / Thoughtseize or something, then board the Rods in. You have really no other mana denial to make the Rods good in any other matchup.



  • Well the Rods were to have Disruption against Outcome, but also to have a Permanent I can get back with Sun Titan... which Burtality and the like cant.



  • Take a look at the oath list that Matt buck piloted at NA vintage champs in 2017, myself and some other people were tinkering with this concept after saheeli was spoiled and we decided not to try and "twin" them and instead only played prison elements. We played limited blue spells in the list as well however. He was on stream round 3 I believe. 0_1539536316979_Screenshot_20181014-125441_Chrome.jpg I couldn't figure out how to import the list so here is a screen shot of it from eternal central.



  • I agree, it is a very interesting idea. The issue that I suspect this deck could run into is not being able to utilize counter magic. Vintage decks keep getting better at evading spot removal, and the Paradoxical Outcome decks run more bounce spells than they have in the past. However, more creature based are being played as an answer to PO, so maybe the meta has shifted enough for this deck to work out.



  • @msg67183 said in A New and Interesting Take on Oath:

    Well the Rods were to have Disruption against Outcome, but also to have a Permanent I can get back with Sun Titan... which Burtality and the like cant.

    In that scenario just having Pernicious Deed is almost as good. You respond to PO with Deed for zed and they tend to not have much coming back to hand. I understand how Rod stones PO, but its something the pilots of that archtype have a plan for (Hurkyl's). Maybe a Stony, which requires dedicated removal. You could board into Chains as well which stops the deck cold and really just nugs your Preordains and restricted draw.



  • TBH, I don't know that it's such an extremely new idea. The first Oath deck I played (way back in the dark ages), utilised Null Rod and the full complement of Wastelands + strip mine to even the odds against all the dual lands, moxes and Lotuses I didn't have and then win with Oath, Tinker+Sundering Titan or one of the other haymakers in the deck before they could recover/get rid of it.
    Worked like a charm then. I've thought for a while now that with PO decks on the rise and Workshop's artifact creatures actually having activated abilities that it might be a good time to dust that version off the deck again, but with no local Vintage community, family commitments and work I just haven't had the opportunity.
    I could try to bring my Vintage decks when I travel for work (which is a lot), but unless I'm certain there's Vintage to be played where I'm going I'm a little hesitant to carry around tens of thousands of dollars in cards.
    Only thing I'm a little fuzzy on is what Oath targets to run. You want the package to be as tight as possible, but able to kill quickly. The new Niv-Mizzet looks very spicy as an Oath target for a hybrid Oath/Storm kill, but then I've always liked the clean focus of Demonic-Tutor-Demon into Time Walk into regrowth/recoup as it didn't add any extra cards to the combo (both Time Walk and Regrowth are cards you were happy to play then).


 

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