What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?

@thecravenone said in What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?:

@griselbrother Cool, thanks for the input!

You're welcome, I'm glad you're with me. It would be a pretty bad article on tips and tricks if really basic stuff was to be included.

@griselbrother For a column called “Vintage 101,” this stuff seems pretty appropriate.

Knowing how to maximize your use of Engineered Explosives against Sphere effects and Chalice.

Most people are aware of using colorless manner to get around chalice, but also paying two or more of one color can play around chalice ( and Misstep if explosives on one counter is needed).

Also being aware with a taxing effect, you can announce x to be less than the number of counters you will need and use the tax as a way to add extra colors to the payment (ie. announce x is one with Thalia in play and pay UW for your explosives to have two counters on it to kill Thalia)

There's a technique called 'Walking the Dog' with Flusterstorm. Also if you put your opponent on 2 good spells in lets say a 7 card opener and you feel you have a slow start it may be correct to counter (Force let's say) Lotus. Especially if you know what your opponent is on. Mana Crypt is sometimes a similar decision, especially against Shops or formerly Eldrazi. The decision gets easier with more information, and even easier if you are playing blue and have 4-6 textless cards to pitch like Skillstep and Flusterstorm.

But even against a blue deck who has Lotus, Mentor, any Blue Land, some mess of Flusters and Skillsteps. With perfect information you would Force lotus.

Brainstorm + Fetchland
“Sac then tap” (smokestack and tangle wire)

@ten-ten I see people crack fetches EOT thinking that "duh, thinning" is actually a thing. Then they waste card advantage by drawing Brainstorm, Ponder or similar effects.

@infectedmushroom yeah, it's always best to just wait to crack a fetchland when needed. I got a better handle on this before Brainstorm got restricted and even moreso when Lotus Cobra was printed.

@infectedmushroom said in What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?:

@ten-ten I see people crack fetches EOT thinking that "duh, thinning" is actually a thing. Then they waste card advantage by drawing Brainstorm, Ponder or similar effects.

To further expand on cracking fetches at the right time, people should also be extremely mindful about when they crack fetches. Remember that if you crack a fetch you do not have access to that mana till you fetch your land, which might allow your opponent to respond to the fetch activation!

True, mana drain is played a bit less these days, but it's worth keeping in mind that you don't want to drop your shields by fetching at the wrong time.

@griselbrother said in What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?:

@thecravenone said in What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?:

@griselbrother Cool, thanks for the input!

You're welcome, I'm glad you're with me. It would be a pretty bad article on tips and tricks if really basic stuff was to be included.

But a surprisingly large number of people still get these things wrong, basic or not, so they're useful tips, and a generic "know how your cards work" is IMO less useful than mentioning specific things people get wrong.

@brandawri said in What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?:

@griselbrother said in What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?:

@thecravenone said in What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?:

@griselbrother Cool, thanks for the input!

You're welcome, I'm glad you're with me. It would be a pretty bad article on tips and tricks if really basic stuff was to be included.

But a surprisingly large number of people still get these things wrong, basic or not, so they're useful tips, and a generic "know how your cards work" is IMO less useful than mentioning specific things people get wrong.

Right, I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the article then. My apologies.

Here's a few things I've noted:

  • Cavern of Souls actually makes creatures of the chosen creature type uncounterable
  • Eldrazi Displacer combined with Containment Priest exiles the creature targeted with Displacer. Same if the creature is exiled by Kaya, Ghost Assassin
  • Creatures lose their counters when they are flicked with Eldrazi Displacer This means your Walking Ballista and Hangarback Walker dies
  • You don't become the Monarch nor do you get back the exiled creature if you kill my Palace Jailer
  • Sanctum Prelate doesn't work like Chalice of the Void. You can't cast spells with the chosen converted mana cost
  • Your Arcbound Ravagers modular mechanic doesn't work under my Rest in Peace, nor do you get any Thopter tokens when Hangarback Walker is killed under my Rest in Peace.
last edited by Griselbrother

Here's a few things I've noted:

  • Cavern of Souls actually makes creatures of the chosen creature type uncounterable

...Except if you have the use the colorless mana to cast the creature (say you want to cast a Thought-Knot Seer off 2 Plains, a Mox Emerald and a Cavern naming Eldrazi; you will have to use the colorless mana from Cavern, thus TKS can be countered).

Another trick I just thought of: You can actually play counterspells targetting a non-counterable spell; they will just do nothing, but they will trigger Prowess, increase storm count, etc.

Mana Drain on an uncounterable spell stills nets you the colorless Mana of said spell you tried to counter. First time I seen this was at a tourney in 2000ish, right after Invasion. One guy casts Obliterate to wipe the board, guy 2 drains it, guy 1 says can't uncounterable. Guy 2 says I know but I still get 10 colorless Mana. Next turn he drops U Sea, casts Yawg Will into a lotus, moxen, and brain geyser to refill his grip. Was a beautiful play.

@griselbrother Yeah a lot of this stuff is just basic things, I'm looking for mostly little advantage tips that most people might not know.

I'll be doing some compilation later on all of this and picking out the good ones, I appreciate all of the great submissions. 🙂

Still would be looking for anything spicy decklist wise if someone wants to get a good spice listed.

I been working on a jank Paradoxical Outcome deck involving Snap/Cloud of Fairies, Concordant Crossroads, and lots of Mana dorks. Cloud of Fairies is really strong in PO acting as Mox opals 5-9 for the most part. I don't have results or anything mainly testing on Cockatrice, but it's been fun and unexpected.

@grr said in What are some Common Vintage Tips & Tricks Everyone Should Know?:

Here's a few things I've noted:

  • Cavern of Souls actually makes creatures of the chosen creature type uncounterable

...Except if you have the use the colorless mana to cast the creature (say you want to cast a Thought-Knot Seer off 2 Plains, a Mox Emerald and a Cavern naming Eldrazi; you will have to use the colorless mana from Cavern, thus TKS can be countered).

But only if you have to. If you don't have to (ie, you're also using another colorless source), you're assumed to be using colored mana for the generic mana portion of the cost, regardless of whether you announced it. [Source]

@volrathxp you mean like "cheat codes" for Vintage? Or a sort of list of Vintage Combos?
That wouldn't be as interesting.

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