Am I wrong?
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I've had a trend of opponents that continue to xerox out pyromancer/mentor tokens when they have an attacking win on the board. Yesterday, this happened twice while I was empty handed so there was no threat that I could do anything to win the game.
I tend to play to a win, so I'll scoop with an attacking win or a demonstrated combo loop, but I expect people to win when they are able. I don't feel like I should have to scoop because they want to see how many tokens they can make. It's a waste of my time. Am I in the wrong here to be upset that these opponents don't just win the game?
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I'll offer an explanation: Often, it's a "I just started going off, and I guess at some point I'll let you know that you're dead. If you know you're dead, I guess you'd concede?" It's fun to just combo off, especially with outcomes.
It's very much not being rude, or showboating, or whatever. They came to have their fun, and by god, they intend to have it.
Now, in paper, I suppose I'd just scoop myself a lot faster--they are taking up precious time on the clock, and no judge can say they're not within their rights to keep taking game actions which are advancing the game state--but on MTGO? Fine, go nuts. If I get bored, I'll concede.
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Are your opponents wrong if they get upset by the fact that you don't concede, yet you still get mad that they have the win and don't just win? If you get upset with that kind of thing, just concede. Or don't get upset and hope for your opponent to have a misstep and pass through their attacks.
Either way, your opponent is just playing their game, as you are. If you think you are wasting your time, just concede.
BTW: I am almost sure that the loss of focus you have when you get upset with that kind of thing lowers your % more than the chance of your opponent have a brain fart AND you still win the game after that. And not to mention quality of life(!!). Getting salty is bad only for you. Relax, take it easy.
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do they know they have a guaranteed win? if they don't, it's often better to do your sorceries pre-combat with a mentor/pyro out.
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They are needlessly giving you information (about their decision making, play patterns, attitude, possibly deck contents), so you should be actively pleased when they do this.
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Thank you for the thoughts. I guess I look at sportsmanship through the vein on American Football. When you are up and there is seconds left in the game, you take a knee. You don't try for a superfluous TD. I also don't feel like the losing team should just walk off the field once they know they are out of it. They line up and finish the game despite knowing they cannot win.
I probably should just scoop. It will likely always be a pet peeve of mine. Attacking me for 20 or 120 give you the exact same win and I do feel like it is showboating. To be fair, my response was a bit immature so I have some lessons I can learn myself.
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@trius Except they don't take a knee for sportsmanship. It is the higher +ev play than running their offense- less risk of injury or disastrous negative outcome.
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Also, in a tournament setting, if they see that it's pissing you off, they have all the more reasons to make it last longer and put you on tilt for the rest of the match/tournament.
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@trius said in Am I wrong?:
but I expect people to win when they are able.
This is a bit of sticking point. When they are able varies from each side of the table. Let's say I have lethal on the board but you are playing red and have open mana. A simple lightning bolt in your hand may mean I dont have lethal. You know I do, but I dont know.
Are you on U? swinging into a flashed in snapcaster may mean not only do I not have lethal but now I dont have a threat either.
Maybe I'm on combo and you cabal therapied me and even after taking that card I have lethal on my turn. Do I go for it? If that therapy is there because its dredge - yep. If that therapy was played as some sort of rogue u/b deck - nope. I dont know I have lethal thru whatever counter magic you may have.
There are times you are hellbent and both you and your opponent know he has it and he still goes for more, well thats a smidge on the bad sportsman side, but not enough to really get upset about. As others have said, maybe they've been trying to accomplish something and they finally get to do it. You have your reasons for not wanting to scoop, maybe they have their reasons for wanting to see how many tokens they can get it.
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@khahan The OP literally said that he was empty-hand both instances he was referring to. And many opponent's I've encountered have deterministic lines that they needless complicate. I think this typically comes down to three reasons in order of estimated frequency:
- Opponents miss the line. I had one instance on stream where I didn't flash in an end step Snapcaster Mage, saving it until my turn when I had more mana up to flashback a Dig through Time or whatever. At that point, the relevant decisions in the game were made - I had more counterspells than my opponent had cards in hand and my opponent had no board position. I just happened to miss the fact that the opponent was at 2 life... In this case, I just missed the line. I can see that happen where you get so into maximizing Mentor triggers or whatever that you lose track of how much damage is being dealt. Because honestly, it really doesn't matter in many games. And additionally on Magic online, players get distracted with multitasking or other things. I remember a player complaining about another player on Facebook about not scooping to a combo. Turns out, the opponent was waiting for a win con, then started watching replays, and then forgot the game was going on (since mtgo will pull you bad to the screen when it's time for SB)... Distractions can definitely make players player suboptimally.
- Opponents are actually trying to "run up the score" but in a 'positive' way. The insane plays type of player. I remember one person at a paper event who was animatedly cast spell after spell while his opponent sat there mana screwed before punting the game to his opponent. While the player's actions could have easily been interpreted as poor sportsmanship, I have now come to understand that this was a combination of enthusiasm lack of social awareness. And I expect that this is even more common on Magic Online when your opponent doesn't have access to the social cues most people look for. Your opponents can't see you getting frustrated behind your computer screen.
- Opponents who are actually trying to BM you. From my interactions with most players, I think this is in the incredible minority of players.
In all cases, you have the right to concede at any time. Ask anyone who watches me stream - I take full advantage of that right. It's important for my sanity and I value the time gained over any small increase in win percentage.
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Oh, bonus factor, if it's in Magic Arena, it might be because they need to play a certain amount of spells/damage for the daily quest and doing so while winning is much faster.
I had Experimental Frenzy in play and would play 3-4 spells a turn while my opponent was at 2. I could bolt him at any time, but it was more efficient to get my quest chaining spells.
