Single Card Discussion - Lavinia, Azorious Renegade

Hello all,
Could someone with limited, standard or even modern format experience explain to me what legally playable cards Lavinia disrupts in those formats?

As a definitive non-expert, it seems to me that it attempts to give UW control in modern another out to Tron. Maybe some type of storm, but i doubt it.

Cheers,
NBA

last edited by Guest

You'd probably be better off going to a forum that isn't Vintage-centric for that information. Probably try the Reddit post about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/a70upd/rna_lavinia_azorius_renegade/

@spacebalzz It's a chalice @ 0 in more ways than 1. Yes, on turn 1, you stop them playing moxen at all, but even on any turn after that, they can't ramp into spells bigger than the # of lands they have, negating the mana bump. You can still use the mox mana to cast multiple smaller spells, but if you are trying to power out a turn 2 Jace for instance with a land, mox, sol ring into 2nd land, Jace...that gets shut down when Lavinia hits.

@NBA84

Tron (not great)
Living End and other Cascade/As Foretold decks
Fringe hit on Mox Opal and some other affinity cards (and Bauble I guess)
Hits conflagrate out of Dredge if I read it right (They need lands cmc = RXX so would need 5 lands to flash it back for 2)
Pacts outta Amulet Titan
Fringe Storm hate
Stops Terminus outta UW until they have 6 lands.

How'd I do? Miss anything?

I think the main intention was Tron and Living End. That said, maybe someone looked at Vintage and tried to make a hatebeat that hit PO. Unless Wizards speaks out, who knows. I'm firmly in the "this is an alright hatebear and the metagame is fine" camp, so I don't really care.

Just one thing I think was missed here when talking about Lavinia dying to removal. This is a one-sided effect, which means it won't be necessary to play it in a hatebear deck. Which means it will probably be played in some misstep/fow decks. Which means they probably won't be able to counter your counters on their removal. I'm not saying this card will or not break the format, just that removal against her is less efficient due to not being normally able to counter our counters.

Lavinia fits best (as in it is her natural home) in the 5C Human version that goes for control and value (Sensei Top/Dack). However this deck did not see a lot of play since I left the scene. The more aggro control Human decks have seen some play according to mtgo goldfish.

I don't think the classical aggro 5C Human decks would work very well right now. With this I am referring to the Mantis Rider lists without Force of Will.

I think the only 2 versions that can do really well is the tempo oriented list with Force of Will and Null Rod (you all know merfolk.dec and the Humans deck that became popular in modern). The problem is that the Bazaar oriented decks are more efficient in doing this. However, it also have to be noted that a Human deck with Caverns can beat any Bazaar.dec because of Lavinia (soon), Containment Priest and artifact removal. I guess this is a matter of taste. It really comes down to whether you want Cavern or Bazaar against the rest of the meta. Bazaar does get the job done faster and more brutally, but Lavinia might be powerful enough to create an argument.

Like I mentioned the TopDack (what I have been playing since 5 years) is also a strong option. This is the deck with broken plays. With the exception of some blue cards you are in fact a blue control ala grixis/mentor deck. You run full acceleration most of the time. But you run a unique 5C manabase with fetchlands to fuel Top and you benefit from Cavern to cast powerfull Human control cards like Kambal, Grand August 4, Monastery Mentor, Spellseeker, Containment Priest, Notion Thief, Snapcaster, JVP, Noble, Deathrites and so on. Usually you end up with approximately 15 creatures which you have chosen well to fit your play against the meta. Most of the times there are some non humans involved, like Shalai or Falkenrath. Shalai is a very interesting option to deny removal or an Oath activation. You can play with Tinker/TV/Key (key is good anyway because you run 2 or 3 tops) with a Blightsteel in SB. When running a Tinker I usually play Trinket Mage aswell and run 1 crypt main deck with also a Containment Priest main deck. This gives me game against Bazaar in game 1. You can also run Chalice with similar ideas. I mean, the options are endless honestly... And I believe that the biggest problem is occupying the slots with cards that have as much versatility as possible. And Lavinia is going to deliver. The slots that she will be sitting in, will be well spend.

In wu Solemnity deck work very ...very..well.

So, I was very skeptical about this card. I was able to buy one on MTGO and I added it to my Paradoxical Mentor deck. This card is nuts.

If you get it down early you just stop all of the hate, no MM no FOW no Moxes. She countered a Hollow One. I'm not sure she is good for the game but she is so lopsided that she changes the game.

I can foreshadow a lot of Pyroblasts and Swords to Plowshares being added to deck in the future.

last edited by moorebrother1

@moorebrother1 Yeah, it's definitely a blast. I played a little bit in my survival deck, and the issues I had the most were the capability of the deck itself playing it (which isn't the most suited, it's mostly suited to cast leovolds), and one thing I should mention is that karakas is ridiculous against it. Against PO I had 1 chance of playing it (alongside leovold), where it was pretty good (ambush viper kills it, you should watch out for that) without getting bounced by karakas or repeal. What I mean is: it's great when it sticks. And the deck that plays it, should probably take some measures for it to stick (mostly misstep and wasteland). I think UWr was already playing 2 wastes (strip+1wasteland), and that should probably be fine against karas, I guess.

In a UW/UWr shell it should be great with protection and maybe some wastelands for karakas. I think PO is running more than 1 karakas to counter it and leovold, as they should. So that's one thing you should take care of.

last edited by GutoCmtt

Someone let me know if someone does well with a Lavinia list like 5-0's or something. I'd like to feature it in next week's article.

Maybe a Bant fish deck will become T1 or T2 meta with waste effects, Fastbond/Exploration and/or Ramunap Excavator.

@gutocmtt I'm playing it in my PO deck to stop the hate. To hedge against it, I am playing 3 swords to plowshare on the board now. I may need a second Karakas

Has anyone tested it in a jeskai Xerox list? I feel the card fits the deck perfectly there, is fine to cast and easy to defend.

@Aelien just got finished playing a league where she came into play from Jeskai Xerox. I was on pitch dredge. Beat the snot out me.

If she does see more play a good counter card might be Old Man of the Sea. He is almost $170 on paper but on .03 tix on MTGO. I might try him on the board - LOL

0_1547929531266_a750d344-1a66-42fe-abc3-70a239dcec02-image.png

@moorebrother1 Old Man is probably too slow and easy to counter. If you want to steal creatures I'd say Gilded Drake or Legacy's Allure are better.

Threads of Disloyalty is also an option. Old Man only has to be like 10% as good as the best thing to be worth it for the style points though. 😉

@moorebrother1 said in Single Card Discussion - Lavinia, Azorious Renegade:

If she does see more play a good counter card might be Old Man of the Sea. He is almost $170 on paper but on .03 tix on MTGO. I might try him on the board - LOL

0_1547929531266_a750d344-1a66-42fe-abc3-70a239dcec02-image.png

Old Man isn't awful. He can be really annoying in conjunction with Preacher and City of Shadows. This combo is not 'good' by any stretch of the imagination. But it sure is fun against any creature deck that that doesn't run Ballista or a ton of removal (i.e. most creature decks). Theoretically he doesn't look good against Revoker, but should your opponent really name Old Man with the one Revoker they manage to stick?

I tried this (1x Preacher 1x Old Man 1x City) in the sideboard and won a few games with it. I've lost more than I'd like to admit. But how fun it can be when it works makes the losses worth it for me.

Curious what people have thought of this card now that it's seen print.

I've been pretty happy with Lavinia. I think she does a good job slowing down games and forcing broken strategies to find answers to her, while still allowing those decks to function. I haven't encountered too many games in which she's been oppressive and I think she's pretty poor against fairer strategies like Xerox. Then again, I've adapted my sideboarding strategy to have more low cost and permanent based answers and go down on Force of Wills in matchups where she's likely to make an appearance. It's led to a pretty interesting metagame, at least initially.

Has that been the experience of others?

  • 219
    Posts
  • 56694
    Views