Electrodominance
XRR
Instant
Electrodominance deals X damage to any target. You may cast a card with converted mana cost X or less from your hand without paying it's mana cost.

Could this make something like Ancestral Visions playable in Vintage? We already have As Foretold which sees no play, but As Foretold requires tapping out main phase and needs time to ramp and has no ability by itself (albeit, it's reusable). This spell is instant, just a "plus 2" to the cost of any spell you want to cast, and can kill planeswalkers, weenies, or deal the final damage to an opponent at instant speed.

I can see a situation where you EoT this thing and play instants not in your colors...maybe an As Foretold/Electrodominance UR deck with non-UR spells? You can also cast PWs, artifacts, and creatures off this on your main phase, which you can't with AF.

I liked those "Play a spell with CMC X or less for free" spells in the last block (Sram's expertise for example), but you couldn't cast anything costing more than 3 and you couldn't cheat out a costless card for 2 mana like you can with this. RR = Hypergenisis? Mountain, Ruby/SSG = Emrakul?

You could cast Ancestral Vision and Hypergenisis with Expertises too. The rules text is the same.
The thing is that you'll pay 2-4 mana for a bad spell (Electrodominance) to be able to cast a 0-2 mana spell, which makes it much more likely your spell will be countered in the first place. They either counter Electrodominance or they counter the Ancestral you're playing and now have 2-3 mana less to defend.

Yeah, but Electrodominance scores a few points over the Expertises:

  1. It's cheaper. RR for a Suspend spell.
  2. It's instant speed. (And it does overcoming timing restrictions; look at the Gatherer ruling on similar abilities, like from Etali, Primal Storm)
  3. The default ability (Blaze) is more generally useful than the expertises.

I think this all makes it a pretty safe bet that Electrodominace is BETTER than the Expertises were. So, the fact that the Expertises were not playable is not really relevant when considering this card.

On its own merits, is it worthwhile? Is it worth playing RR to instant-speed out Suspend spells in any Vintage deck?

last edited by MaximumCDawg

My argument had little to do with the Expertises though. I only mentioned them to correct the op by saying that they too could cast Ancestral Vision. I don't think clunking your deck with unplayable cards (suspend spells) is the best way to go in Vintage. Also, you're spending 2 cards for that Ancestral Vision which makes it a glorified-2-card-combo-harder-to-cast-Night's Whisper.

Hrm I'm not sure where I sit on this card. Two mana to play spells at instant speed is not good enough on its own (Alchemist's Refuge sees no play), but the direct damage is a nice bonus, especially as it can pick off opposing planeswalkers. Casting this on an opponent's EOT with decent-sized value of X puts them in a rather awkward spot, as they need to decide whether to counter the Electrodominance itself, the free followup spell, or whatever you try to cast after untapping on your turn.

The combo with no-mana-cost Suspend spells is cute, but very inconsistent as far as two-card combos go, IMO.

@evouga said in [RNA] Electrodominance:

with decent-sized value of X puts them in a rather awkward spot, as they need to decide whether to counter the Electrodominance itself, the free followup spell, or whatever you try to cast after untapping on your turn.

They can just counter the spell, which prevents you from casting the free spell.

@fsecco said in [RNA] Electrodominance:

Also, you're spending 2 cards for that Ancestral Vision which makes it a glorified-2-card-combo-harder-to-cast-Night's Whisper.

Yeah, I don't think Vision is the best payoff for this. Going up a card at instant speed is decent for two mana, but it's only worth so much effort... Predict does this through synergy with any one of several very good cards rather than a dedicated combo, and even that isn't attractive enough to see play very often. I think you need to shoot for the bigger payoffs to make this worth it, which probably means either Hypergenesis to drop multiple huge monsters on your opponent's end step or else maybe Wheel of Fate for a deck that just wants to play tons of draw-sevens.

Just to be sure, if I cast this targeting Lavinia, my free spell will be countered before Lavinia dies, right?

@maximumcdawg

This overcomes the timing restrictions??? WOW. So I can EoT hypergenisis? THAT is intriguing. Ancestral visions was the card that came to mind first...but instant speed balance (the suspend or regular one), hypergenesis, living end maybe? I can at very least see this doing stupid stuff in modern, but if it gets around timing restrictions of sorceries, I definitely think it's worth tinkering with in Vintage.

And since, unlike As Foretold, this just says "cast a card"...can I cast oath of druids or liliana EoT?

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

@wagner Not before, but it will be countered. The free spell will go on the stack and trigger Lavinia. It will die and the stack will be:

lavinia trigger
spell

Then the spell gets countered, but Lavinia is already in the graveyard by then.

@thewhitedragon69 said in [RNA] Electrodominance:

@maximumcdawg

This overcomes the timing restrictions??? WOW. So I can EoT hypergenisis? THAT is intriguing. Ancestral visions was the card that came to mind first...but instant speed balance (the suspend or regular one), hypergenesis, living end maybe? I can at very least see this doing stupid stuff in modern, but if it gets around timing restrictions of sorceries, I definitely think it's worth tinkering with in Vintage.

And since, unlike As Foretold, this just says "spell"...can I cast oath of druids or liliana EoT?

Nah, Violent Outburst already exists. And cascade decks work in Modern because you don't need the card in your hand. I doubt this will do anything for that achetype.

@thewhitedragon69 Yeah, it should work with everything.

@fsecco In modern though, something like EoT RR into ancestral visions on turn 2 is really solid...it's meh in vintage. The cascade FINDS living end, so it's probably better for that, but I still think this has application with AV or just sick value in modern. But if this can allow EoT PWs, creatures, and artifacts, that can be REALLY nasty.

@craw_advantage WOW. RR might be tough to pull off in current decks, but I think this is certainly worth testing. An EoT Oath of Druids after I'm sure I won't see grafdiggers or they are tapped out and I won't have to worry about a sorcery speed answer...that is really interesting. I'm still mostly thinking hypergenisis for the 2 mana busted play, but instant speed that casts ANYTHING is very, very, interesting to me.

@wagner said in [RNA] Electrodominance:

Just to be sure, if I cast this targeting Lavinia, my free spell will be countered before Lavinia dies, right?

@fsecco is right. The precise order of events is:

  • Electrodominance starts to resolve. It stays on the stack while doing so. You follow its instructions in order, so Electrodominance deals its damage to Lavinia. You then announce your free spell, pay its costs, and put the spell onto the stack (on top of Electrodominance). The free spell can target Electrodominance, if you want (Fork?!).
  • Unless you paid mana (due to Spheres etc) for your free spell, Lavinia's second ability triggers.
  • Electrodominance finishes resolving and moves from the stack to your graveyard. Lavinia's ability that triggered in the previous step is put onto the stack, on top of your free spell. State-based effects are checked. If Lavinia has lethal damage, she goes to the graveyard.
  • Lavinia's triggered ability resolves and counters your free spell.
last edited by evouga

I'm so skeptical of the use of Electrodominance.Its text reads:"deals X damage to any target where X is the CMC of the next spell you cast."This is the one-off ability of Vial Smasher the Fierce,who doesn't see vintage play.

NOTE:you can play Electrodominance as Quicken or as a mana-filter.But these funcitons are not essential.

@saya That text is very different. Electrodominance deals damage equal to X, but your next spell can be X or less. You can blast a Jace for 4 and cast a 1cmc spell off it. Also, you're not paying the cost of the next spell, which is a big difference from that wording.

Being a quicken AND mana filter to boot, and casting any spell (not just instant/sorcery) is really strong imo.

Vial smasher is also dealing damage off your first spell and it's a creature, so it can be killed on your turn when you cast it before it has any effect. Your opponent is aware he's in play as well. The difference in timing on this new card is WAY different than VStF.

Also, being cast for value (i.e. RR3 to bolt + cast free tinker (without sacing an artifact), ancestral, etc.) is decent, but not earth shattering - EoT tinker without sacing an artifact is kinda hot though. But the big play is casting costless spells for RR like hypergenisis or wheel of fate. Vial Smasher has nothing on that.

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

Hypergenesis after frying your Containment Priest seems entertaining. But in a 1 Brainstorm world probably is just worse than oath.

@thewhitedragon69 said in [RNA] Electrodominance:

Also, being cast for value (i.e. RR3 to bolt + cast free tinker (without sacing an artifact)

I believe you still have to sac the artifact. Electrodominance still has you cast the spell. The only thing you dont do is pay its mana cost. But I'm pretty sure additional costs have to be paid. This would include sacrificing an artifact to tinker, 3 mana for trinisphere or paying for any other sphere effects.

@khahan Gotcha. EoT Sorcery is still intriguing. It's also a way to EoT oath into play after frying their priest as someone said. negating sorcery-speed answers to things helps.

I'm actually maybe most excited about EoT balance. Twist/Wrath/Armogeddon on your opponent's end step has to be brutal. Being able to do it 5 times (with restore balance) is just hot.

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