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last edited by Brass Man

I always wonder about decks like this and the potential inclusion of grove of the burnwillow and punishing fire. I know it can feel a little under powered in vintage, but the incremental advantage is quite high, and it seems like you can probably make an opposing control players life very difficult with them, while still getting value against stuff like shops and to a lesser extent dredge. It definitely seems like a thing that could be friendly with 4 dacks.

@garbageaggro It seems like it could at least be worth a shot if the hatebears decks from this weekend end up sticking around.

@garbageaggro I think the problem with those cards is that the match-ups they are good in, you are often being constrained in your mana, which can make it harder to execute that plan.

The lists I’ve seen recently (ref mtgtop8 and Bob Maher’s VSL list) are playing Skullclamp. I have an immediate reaction of “fuck yeah Skullclamp,” but is it actually good? Until you’ve drawn one of your six creatures, it’s completely dead. It’s obviously a powerful engine with Peezy, but seems cute. How do the Xerox pilots here feel about it?

Also curious about how important Green is in the deck. Sperling’s writeup made it seem pretty critical in shoring up the Oath and Survival matchups with Nature’s Claim, and we all know how good Ancient Grudge is ... Maybe I just answered my own question, but I wonder if straight UR with, like, Shattering Sprees is still viable or defensible.

Traditional Oath is the worst matchup for decks like these, I think without nature's claim (and green) you are literally having to play and rely on cage only, and that doesn't seem like a winning strategy for that matchup to me.

I think you could easily go with white as well. You loose the instant speed of Claim, but Fragmentize does more less the same. Ancient Grudge can be exchanged with Shattering Spree which has ups and downs. Additionally you get Mentor, Lavinia and Rest in Peace.

last edited by Tom Bombadil

When x4 Gush was still legal I was having a ton of success with my Grixis Pyromancer deck while alternating to RUG Delver as well (predicting the meta in the P9 events as I’d tend to lean toward RUG if I expected more shops). IMO, these style of Xerox decks are very vulnerable to Oath & Dredge. Sure, you can board in the Claim’s vs Oath but you really need to rely on Cage to carry you to victory which is not always a winning proposition as they bring in Grudge.
I think RUG Pyromancer is seeing a lot more success today due to the fall of Oath. It has game vs the current meta (especially in Leagues with Survival everywhere).
As for Skullclamp, I was never a fan of the card in Vintage.

@i_b_true I'm not sure I got the observation about having game in a meta with survival. Is that because it's good against the old bant version? I usually don't care much about that kind of thing, but rug pyromancer is among the best matchups for the bug version (last challenge I played I went pretty well because I got 4-0 against rug pyromancer decks with bug survival).

I'm really just curious to know if you guys are really getting favorable results with this deck against survival lately.

@gutocmtt hello- Maybe I should of been more clear; RUG Xerox felt favored vs Bant Survival. Not only did I have a + win rate vs that deck but in testing with my crew RUG was favored as well. A lot goes into this though on so many different levels... how the players play each deck differently, the correct cards you see, and so on. I haven’t played Vintage in a few weeks since I haven’t been that interested so I haven’t played against the BUG version.

last edited by i_b_TRUE

@i_b_true Oh ok, I thought it was something like that, but I just wanted to be sure about what it was good against. Just to be clear, I too agree with that about bant versions. When I played the GWUr version (basically bant with chewer, pyroblast and grudge), I used to feel like it was about 50/50 against xerox (which was before the RUG version was improved).

last edited by GutoCmtt
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