I will probably stream my Vintage Challenge from the weekend, and answer all of @Rat3dE's questions tonight.

@Smmenen Thank you! I eagerly await, though will most likely not be able to watch it live due to the Warriors game 😞

Promise it will be after the Warriors game :). I Will also be watching that

AJ, I'm about to go live at: https://www.twitch.tv/smmenen

I haven't streamed in two years, so bear with me if there any bumps.

Fascinating stream tonight, thank you.

I would really try to find space for the 11th and 12th dredger. Difficulty finding dredgers was an issue in multiple matches.

You know how a lot of pro players will take a well-tuned deck and give it an extra edge in consistency by adding a land or two? The same idea applies with dredgers as well. They're a support base for your deck in much the same way as land in a more traditional deck.

last edited by ajfirecracker

@Smmenen Just finished watching your stream, thank you so much for showing us your replays and talking through your deck and decisions. It was really helpful and gives us good ideas on what works and what doesn't. I am interested to see how well Dakmor serves its role since we did not see it do anything in the challenge. Overall, great job playing and building, thank you again 🙂

Good! I'm glad I answered your questions! Here is the direct link to the video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/437434568

@smmenen Stephen, I had a question for you. Are you SURE you need a Dread Return package? What about running 4 copies of the new card Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis? Just a thought as it pitches to FoV and also exiles to Ichorid in a pinch.

We discussed that question in the stream last night (video in post above)

4 Hogaak seems like overkill to me, although the exact count is something to fine-tune and tweak over time. I think 3 is where I would most likely start.

@ajfirecracker

In a build with Bridge from Below getting 2x Hogaak in the GY can be chained for a ton of zombies.

I have 2 4-1s in a deck without dread return and with 4 Hogaarks. It’s not pitch. It doesn’t run bridge. A free 8/8 is pretty good without extras honestly. I was testing a minimalist hypothesis by cutting cards like narcmoeba. You don’t need four but the fact that it pitches to Force of Vigor, Ichorid, Unmask, and Contagion/Shoal means the diminishing returns of running 4 are virtually nonexistent and this argument is pretty irrelevant. Play as many as you can fit.

last edited by Guest

@chubbyrain

I think the route you've gone is probably closer to optimal when it comes to post board games. I am a little bit afraid for some matchups where you kind of do really need Dread Return to close out the game quickly, but more on this when I finish writing up this report from the weekend.

I haven’t encountered games in which that has come up. Ironically, I’ve lost to lotus Narset + strip mine and not having a dredger (despite Steve’s hyperbole that Narset does nothing) in back to back games and Mirror Fun tm. What matches are the go wide strategy necessary?

Edit: I still kill on turn 3 the vast majority of games.

last edited by Guest

You mostly want DR for the mirror, storm, and oath. Other matchups it doesn't really matter.

Wasteland is the number 1 reason you will lose game 1s though in general, and yeah Narset + hate piece is really obnoxious.

last edited by vaughnbros

@chubbyrain said in Pitch Dredge:

I have 2 4-1s in a deck without dread return and with 4 Hogaarks. It’s not pitch. It doesn’t run bridge. A free 8/8 is pretty good without extras honestly. I was testing a minimalist hypothesis by cutting cards like narcmoeba. You don’t need four but the fact that it pitches to Force of Vigor, Ichorid, Unmask, and Contagion/Shoal means the diminishing returns of running 4 are virtually nonexistent and this argument is pretty irrelevant. Play as many as you can fit.

I think you're thinking about this backwards. My concern is not that I'm going to have too many Hogaaks and be unable to find a use for the 4th one. My concern is that slots are valuable, and the 4th Hogaak has to pull its weight for me to choose that card over an additional Mindbreak Trap or the one-of Gitaxian Probe or the Strip Mine or whatever the best card I could run would be. If 3 Hogaaks gives me a certain level of ability to close the game with the Dredge plan, the 4th has to make a serious contribution beyond that in order to justify itself.

Yes, I’m saying that the utility of being a b/g card, along with the consistency of hitting and casting hogaark on turn 2 to set up the turn 3 kill, justifies the 4th copy. I thought that followed from my post.

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