One other addendum: Because of the rise of BUG and/or Wrenn decks, that's why I added a pair of Petrified Fields. Also, Field + Strip is good against Tabernacle, directly and indirectly.

My guess is that Survival will taper off at the NYSE. I'm actually really down on Survival. I think BUG is the real deal though.

I would guess that the metagame at the NYSE will be something like:

25% Shop + Eldrazi type decks
15% Xerox decks
10% BUG decks
13% Dredge
7% Survival
5% Oath
5% PO (some people will still try it, even though it's terribly positioned, because they don't play on MTGO).
5% other control (lanstill/grixis, etc)
15% Other

Just because Shops/Eldrazi are going to predominate, this deck is extremely well positioned.

@Smmenen

How is Prized Amalgam performing for you? Would you consider anything else in that slot?

What would you think of cutting Ravenous Traps for Wastelands?

I've considered cutting Amalgam, but the problem is your blue count. And, it's also relatively beefy. I like that you can just win with an Ichorid and Amalgam, and tempo your opponent out for a few turns to win.

If I were to cut Amalgam, I would probably go:

+2 Petrified Fields
+4 Bloodghast
+2 Force of Negation (from the sideboard)

-4 Amalgam
-4 Leylines

And move the Leylines to the SB, probably cutting Rav Traps altogether.

last edited by Smmenen

You'd only cut Amalgams for Bloodghasts? So you feel strongly that the deck needs 12 graveyard creatures?

I think it's very important for the deck to present an offense without having to dredge much, in order to play through Traps and Crypts. Yes. I will bin an Amalgam and an Ichorid knowing that it will force my opponent to Crypt or Trap me. Bloodghast serves a similar function there.

I tested a little bit with Bloodghast over the weekend, and disliked it. As long as you want Force of Wills, I think you are prized into Amalgam, because you can't basically cut Force of Negations and/or MBT, and still have a high enough blue count. And you know how I feel about MBT (not great).

@smmenen said in Pitch Dredge:

My guess is that Survival will taper off at the NYSE. I'm actually really down on Survival. I think BUG is the real deal though.

Somewhat unrelated, I know, but this seems a very confusing statement on it’s face. At this point Survival plays a passable BUG game where necessary while still having the busted stuff.

I do really like the dredge list though!

Yeah we were having a conversation recently about whether or not BUG is just a worse version of Survival (or certain builds of survival), it certainly seems that way to me. What does playing BUG get you that you can't get with survival?

@garbageaggro said in Pitch Dredge:

Yeah we were having a conversation recently about whether or not BUG is just a worse version of Survival (or certain builds of survival), it certainly seems that way to me. What does playing BUG get you that you can't get with survival?

The blue control element: Narset, Cruise, Dig, Brainstorm, Preordain, and Snapcaster

Wastelands. (And Strip Mine)

Tarmogoyfs. (More efficient beaters)

Overall focus on mana efficiency and cards that are individually good on their own rather than reliance on a single enchantment in conjunction with green mana. The Survival deck still operates without the enchantment but not at a Vintage caliber level.

It’s after all playing “4-mana and 5-mana” 4/4s and Basking Rootwallas.

is one better than the other? Who knows. but those are the differences.

last edited by desolutionist

I got the first Competitive Vintage League Trophy of the July 2-Sept 24th season with Pitch Dredge.

My MVP? 4 Leyline of Sanctity. I beat opponents who had literally 4 Rav Traps in hand tonight, and another player who literally played 4 Tormod's Crypts over the course of one game.

I learned quite a bit, but the main take away I had was that you still want 4 Powder. I tried 0 Powder, 2, and 3, and they were all inferior to 4. The main reason is that Powder allows you to keep larger hands, and thereby do more interaction.

The other thing I learned was that the London Mulligan doesn't really seem to help that much as I expected. In three leagues, I still had to mulligan to 1-3 more than once or twice. What London Mulligan really does, is give you the absolute best hand when you are mulliganing below 4. But it doesn't really help you find Bazaar that much more frequently if you are trying to keep a hand 5 or larger.

Cutting Powder means that you will have to keep hands that are 1-4 cards MUCH more frequently. That's not acceptable for me. Great insights tonight.

last edited by Smmenen

I'm testing four Street Wraiths in the place of Petrified Fields and two other flex slots. They really add some punch to the deck and they can be exiled to the Ichorids. I went 3-2 in the first league beating blue decks but losing 2-1 against the same Dredge player who had four traps and four crypts. I pretty much punted though keeping hands on the back of the white and black leylines when I knew I shouldn't. The white leyline is definitely a good idea, but I don't know how much I want to use it in the mirror.

@smmenen

Nice. Leyline of Sanctity is one of the best anti-hate cards now that the lists have gone mostly manaless.

If play
4 street w.
1 g. Probe
Out
Bloodghast and extra lands

Nether Shadow Is possibile insertion

last edited by babau

@smmenen said in Pitch Dredge:

I got the first Competitive Vintage League Trophy of the July 2-Sept 24th season with Pitch Dredge.

My MVP? 4 Leyline of Sanctity. I beat opponents who had literally 4 Rav Traps in hand tonight, and another player who literally played 4 Tormod's Crypts over the course of one game.

One more reason as always against dredge to be on diverse answers. I played W Karndrazi splash black for jailer and cage out of the board with containment priest main to battle the menace. I think i want to be on creature-based hate atm against you? Though i do like the sickening shoal tech.

I was going to restream my Vintage Playoff rounds last night, but the update to MTGO make that impossible. The replays are now all bugged because of the London Mulligan change. Sorry about that.

Maybe I'll just stream a league later instead.

The release of Modern Horizons has had a large impact on Pitch Dredge with the addition of Force of Vigor, Force of Negation and Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis. Dredge has also had to adjust itself to the release of War of the Spark with Karn, the Great Creator and Narset, Parter of Veils and the release of Core Set 2020 with Mystic Forge. Versions of Pitch Dredge have been tested over the past couple of months with some very interesting results. Based on the latest Dredge decklists from www.mtggoldfish.com for the past three weeks, it seems as though there has been a popular Pitch Dredge decklist that can possibly be established as a primary decklist for Pitch Dredge.

The following decklist was found on www.mtggoldfish.com was found 11 times over the past three weeks that did well on various Vintage Challenges and Leagues out of 20 total Vintage Dredge Decks:

4x Narcomoeba
4x Prized Amalgam
4x Shambling Shell
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Ichorid
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Hollow One
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Ashen Rider

4x Cabal Therapy
1x Gitaxian Probe
4x Mental Misstep
3x Dread Return
2x Force of Vigor
4x Force of Will

4x Serum Powder
4x Bridge from Below
4x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Petrified Field

(sideboard varies)

Within the past three weeks there has been 4 decks that were the same as the above except for differing with 1-3 cards within the Vintage Challenges and Leagues.

So if you take the 11 decks that are the same, the 4 decks that are almost the same and there being a total of 20 Vintage Dredge Decks in the past three weeks of Vintage Challenges and Leagues; you basically have 75% of the decks being the same. This may be the new Pitch Dredge Deck.

Daniel Worobec

Does anyone have the math on finding bazaar with London and including 1,2,3, or 4 powders? I thought I remembered seeing it here but cant find it. Thx!

@illig719 in my thread I went over Frank Karsten's math, though it was just 0/4 powders.

@blindtherapy
That's what I was looking for thanks!

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