How to beat Xerox with UW Outcome

This is my current list for reference:

Mana (24):
1 Karakas
4 Tundra
3 Island
3 Flooded Strand
Strip Mine
Tolarian Academy
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Sol Ring
1 Mox Opal
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Lotus Petal

Draw/Tutor (18):
4 Preordain
4 Paradoxical Outcome
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Timetwister
Ancestral Recall
Brainstorm
Ponder
Gitaxian Probe
Mystical Tutor
Merchant Scroll
Tinker

Win the Game (7):
Mind's Desire
Time Walk
Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Monastery Mentor
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Disruption (6):
3 Flusterstorm
3 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade

Removal (5):
3 Repeal
1 Hurkyl's Recall
Balance

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Disenchant
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Fragmentize
1 Flusterstorm
1 Plains

I currently only own 3 Strands, that way you are aware.

@msg67183 Do you have Snapcaster Mage? And anymore Mox Opals?

last edited by moorebrother1

No I do not, sadly. I wonder if picking up the cards to play DPS would just be better right now, since DPS doesnt get hit by the stuff that current Xerox decks are doing to handle current combo decks.

@msg67183 DPS sadly does also get hit by a lot of the stuff. Rod, Stoney and REB/Pyro aren't as brutal, but MM, Flusterstorm, Lavinia, FoW and Trap still hit us pretty hard. If you switch to DPS let me know, iam interested in your list then.

@msg67183 Based on your current decklist and card collection, I would recommend going away from a "traditional" PO build.

You can play around with other concepts but you really need at least 2 Mox Opals and even then I would say add 1 or Chrome Mox to sure up your mana.

The turn 1 for this deck is critical and the ability to finish when you have an opening is even more critical. Lavinia has made playing PO very hard but PO is still one of the best decks in the format so that is saying something.

DPS will give you similar challenges but different options. Look at the @CyrusCG list from the VSL - https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2019/01/vintage-super-league-season-9-week-1-decklists/

It is a solid build
Dark Petition Storm (DPS)
Spells (48)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
1 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Petition
4 Dark Ritual
3 Defense Grid
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Necropotence
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Sol Ring
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Yawgmoth’s Bargain
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
Lands (12)
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea

Sideboard (15)
1 Defense Grid
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
3 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Island
1 Karakas
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Fatal Push
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Tinker

@msg67183 said in How to beat Xerox with UW Outcome:

This is my current list for reference:

Mana (24):
1 Karakas
4 Tundra
3 Island
3 Flooded Strand
Strip Mine
Tolarian Academy
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Sol Ring
1 Mox Opal
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Lotus Petal

Draw/Tutor (18):
4 Preordain
4 Paradoxical Outcome
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Timetwister
Ancestral Recall
Brainstorm
Ponder
Gitaxian Probe
Mystical Tutor
Merchant Scroll
Tinker

Win the Game (7):
Mind's Desire
Time Walk
Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Monastery Mentor
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Disruption (6):
3 Flusterstorm
3 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade

Removal (5):
3 Repeal
1 Hurkyl's Recall
Balance

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Disenchant
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Fragmentize
1 Flusterstorm
1 Plains

I currently only own 3 Strands, that way you are aware.

I dont want to sidetrack the conversation too much here with a nomenclature debate, but I'm wondering how you dont consider this deck itself to be Xerox?

@khahan That is kind of a loaded question. I have stopped looking at blue decks like that because the "shell" for blue decks are all so similar that they all start to blend into each other. I actually counted cards that make the deck different and you only get about 12 cards because the shells all start with 5 mox, lotus, ancestral, time walk, probe, dig, gush, cruise, brainstorm, ponder, preordain. It's not to say these cards make every deck the same or different but it is so easy to say all blue decks are Xerox. I just don't go there anymore.

last edited by moorebrother1

@moorebrother1 said in How to beat Xerox with UW Outcome:

@khahan That is kind of a loaded question. I have stopped looking at blue decks like that because the "shell" for blue decks are all so similar that they all start to blend into each other. I actually counted cards that make the deck different and you only get about 12 cards because the shells all start with 5 mox, lotus, ancestral, time walk, probe, dig, gush, cruise, brainstorm, ponder, preordain. It's not to say these cards make every deck the same or different but it is so easy to say all blue decks are Xerox. I just don't go there anymore.

Understood and I agree to an extent. I typically try to stay away but it just seems a bit relevant here. I'm counting 4x preordain, AR, BS, ponder, 3xrepeal, Git probe - and only 13 land. To me, that is pretty much the definition of the xerox shell. On the other hand the U/W deck I run that I referenced in my first post has AR and BS and a heavier focus on counter magic and broken big spells. The Chalice of the Void strat I mentioned works because that deck ISN'T anything like the xerox shell. But CotV on 1 would pretty much shut this deck down, too.
And the reason I think its relevant is maybe the answer to the OP's question lies in a change in play approach as opposed to a card change.

That's what I was afraid of. I finally have a full set of power on mtgo, not sure what to do with it lol. DPS seems like an idea actually. The list I had in mind was Esper so that I could play Lavinia but I'm not sure if that is worth it... here is what I threw together:

Mana (29):
1 Karakas
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
Tolarian Academy
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Sol Ring
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual

Draw/Tutor (18):
4 Preordain
4 Dark Petition
2 Yawgmoth's Bargain
Timetwister
Ancestral Recall
Brainstorm
Ponder
Gitaxian Probe
Mystical Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor

Win the Game (4):
Time Walk
Monastery Mentor
Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony

Disruption (7):
4 Duress
3 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade

Removal (2):
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Fragmentize
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Plains

I would make some adjustments to the mana base. Even with lavinia sea is your most important dual so I would up it to 3 seas and drop to one tundra and one scrub. Early sea gives you duress, rit, recall, + cantrips and it will feel bad getting your only copy striped/wasted. Also would move karakas to the board and add basic swamp. Also I didnt see necro in the deck. I would definetly add as there will be times where it's your best route to win thru dark petition.

So here is a list I'm wondering if any Outcome grinders would provide some thoughts on, it's still UW:

Mana (25):
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Karakas
Tolarian Academy
Library of Alexandria
2 Mox Opal
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Sol Ring
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Lotus Petal

Creatures (4):
2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
1 Snapcaster Mage
Monastery Mentor

Draw/Tutor/Power (23):
4 Paradoxical Outcome
4 Preordain
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Voltaic Key
Ponder
Gitaxian Probe
Ancestral Recall
Brainstorm
Dig Through Time
Treasure Cruise
Timetwister
Merchant Scroll
Mystical Tutor
Mind's Desire
Time Walk
Time Vault

Permission (6):
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm

Removal (2):
1 Repeal
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
1 Flusterstorm
1 Island
1 Blightsteel Colossus
Tinker
Balance

I wonder if this list is good? What would you cut? Add?

Timetwister and Mind's Desire are traps without Tendrils of Agony. Also, I greatly dislike Preordain as a 4x because youre trying to play the Xerox role and when you're needing to commit cards to the board, it just isn't good enough. I'd be playing 2 Missteps (Mainly to Misstep Misstep on Top/Sol Ring - @nedleeds tag for value).

You lose near-nothing by going into black to gain access to Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor.

From what I've seen, Lavinia is only really good against Outcome. Maybe it isnt even needed? Yes I understand playing 1 Underground Sea for the trifecta: Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will seems quite easy.

Lavinia stops Force of Will from your Jeskai Opponents and makes them pay mana for Misstep when they're already constrained on those resources, so I think it's okay in that spot.

Consider mystic remora, that card does work in any blue matchup especially as the combo player. Turning all their counters into pseudo arcane denials has to put you ahead in the long run.

@garbageaggro said in How to beat Xerox with UW Outcome:

Consider mystic remora, that card does work in any blue matchup especially as the combo player. Turning all their counters into pseudo arcane denials has to put you ahead in the long run.

If you want to get your game 1 win % vs Misstep/Xerox with outcome just play 4 Grids. They are non-Missteppable Remoras. You'll lose some% vs. shops obviously.

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