[WAR] Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
Brass Man last edited by
Just as an aside, I'm loving that you posted a sample decklist along with the preview card, it helps focus the conversation and give people a better idea of where you're coming from. Would be nice to see that in more preview threads!
vaughnbros last edited by
I feel like it just becomes a decklist discussion instead of a single card discussion at that point.
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I feel it's hard to actually evaluate cards without looking at them in a decklist.
I think others are right in that Hermit Druid or Divining Witch give you a better option. At the very least, Black gives you better disruption and tutoring than White. A starting point could be:
# BUG Variant ## Chubby Rain Combo (10) 3 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries 3 Divining Witch 3 Laboratory Maniac 1 Demonic Consulation Creatures (7) 2 Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy 2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest 3 Deathrite Shaman Permission (13) 4 Force of Will 4 Mental Misstep 3 Thoughtseize 2 Abrupt Decay Spells (10) 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Brainstorm 1 Gitaxian Probe 1 Ponder 1 Gush 1 Dig through Time 1 Treasure Cruise 1 Time Walk 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor Mana (20) 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Sapphire 3 Underground Sea 3 Tropical Island 4 Misty Rainforest 4 Blue Fetches 1 Verdant Catacomb Sideboard (15) 2 Null Rod 3 Nature's Claim 2 Infernal Reckoning 2 Mindbreak Trap 4 Leyline of the Void 2 Yixlid Jailer
Not as out there but Deathrite Shaman is probably the best unrestricted way to cast a triple Blue spell right now. It's where I would start if I was trying to stream a deck based on this card.
Brass Man last edited by
@vaughnbros you're not wrong. Maybe I just think that decklist discussions are on average better than single-card discussions? Personal preference maybe, I'm not advocating for anything as admin here.
@brass-man I kinda like it when people theory-craft on the single-card thread, posting decklists and tests and, when something actually works, a new thread about the deck is created. When you attach a spoiler with a decklist you kinda revolve the whole discussion to the decklist itself, not the card. I also don't condone anything, just prefer to be able to be more abstract on single-cards.
I could go for decklists or not. Typically, I think of new cards in an existing shell or a totally new shell (dummy a few games on cockatrice) and post about it. I find it hard to get the value of a card spot on in the abstract solo-void. Magic is so much about interaction that cards on their own can be total junk, but in combo are amazeballs (see time vault - on it's own, it's garbage...add key, twiddle, smokestack...amazeballs). The last time I tried to evaluate a card in isolation, it was the "4 mana brainstorm crapstick" that we all now know as Jace, the I Win. Had I evaluated it harder in something like an oath shell...I may have been on the right side of history with a $40 playset of mint Jaces.
Regarding the first decklist I put up, clearly that was a 5-minute draft, not optimal by far. Consultation/Witch would be much stronger. I didn't want to go three colors though and got caught up in the Teferi hype in the build (which is actually sub par in this build as well). I originally had enlightened tutor for leveler/thought lash too, removed them, and got to lazy to retool sans white. I like the "remove my library" wincon, though, so it was a shell to put the card in that context.
Discussion really died down here...
How about a different approach? Demonic Consultation is a pretty absurd card and this Jace, WoM isn't terrible. It fuels Delve spells, Deathrite Shamans, and JVP while upticking to draw cards. You don't have to warp a deck too much to try and combo people out. Just consider Jace, WoM the top end of a BUG Fish deck that also plays Demonic Consultation and can incidentally combo kill with Jace and DC.
What does such a decklist look like?
# BUG w/ Jace, Wielder of Mysteries ## Chubby Rain Creatures (13) 4 Deathrite Shaman 3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 3 Tarmogoyf 3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest Planeswalkers (2) 2 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries Spells (20) 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Brainstorm 1 Ponder 1 Gitaxian Probe 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Demonic Consultation 1 Time Walk 1 Dig through Time 1 Treasure Cruise 2 Preordain 3 Abrupt Decay 4 Mental Misstep 4 Force of Will Mana (22) 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Sapphire 3 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 4 Misty Rainforest 2 Polluted Delta 1 Verdant Catacomb 3 Tropical Island 3 Underground Sea 1 Bayou Sideboard (15) 3 Tormod's Crypt 3 Yixlid Jailer 3 Nature's Claim 3 Infernal Reckoning 3 Null Rod
I think this card is much closer to playable than people think...
Also worth mentioning that the ultimate is a win-con no matter what, it's hard to imagine scenarios where your opponent pulls out a win after you've had this guy active for a couple turns, then proceed to draw 7 cards.
I think Sylvan Library is an auto-include in this type of list since it helps you pull ahead on cards or find the combo faster and it synergizes nicely with DR shaman and the new Jace.
I would add Flusterstorms instead of the mana denial package to make the deck better at winning early and in the blue mirror. MD Island(s) is probably going to be a must in order to cast a spell with UUU in the casting cost.
This deck is basically Doomsday but without the constraints that make you soft to Sphere effects or having to play cards that do nothing on their own.
Wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a real thing.
mountain-goat last edited by mountain-goat
@ChubbyRain I really like the second idea (top end of a xeroxy shell) a lot, because as stated, you don't need to warp your deck around the combo to work. It rather provides xerox/bug decks a second path to victory without deluding its main game plan too much (if at all).
In a way, rather than the doomsday approach, it functions somewhat more like a vaultkey splash – with different mana requirements and slightly more expensive in total, but without the need to put dead cards in the deck.
Moreover, both combo cards developing the game state/providing utility on their own – is there another 2card combo that does this? From the top of my head, I can't think of one.
the 4cmc may be the one constraint, therefore Deathrite is a natural inclusion. And i like some number of Islands as @Macdeath mentioned. 2 Jace WoM seems about right, one doesn't want to draw too many copies of it i guess. And maybe even up to 4 jvp/snappy effects to mitigate accidentally discarding your good cards to Jace's +ability? Flashbacking a misstepped DC for the win seems good as well and snapcaster acting as a blocker to protect jace could be useful (another reason for deathrite, too).
Other than that, and with deathrite, DC and demonic tutor being the only black cards that are somewhat mandatory, the rest of such a deck may even be tuned to personal preferences/metagame expectations.
If the green splash isn't for you, maybe UB with vamp, hand disruption, fatal push and sth. like tasigur/angler is? Or Esper with mentor + plows, lavinia and maybe the new teferi? Maybe even transforming the currently popular ur/rug xerox deck to grixis?
Either way, the combo really seems playable, at least in a vacuum. The question is a) whether xerox/bug really needs such a new angle of attack and does the advantage outweigh the costs? And b) whether the new jace (being 4cmc and not able to protect itself) is good enough/fast enough, especially against aggro decks.
One more thing that might be relevant is the amount of tutorable cards you need to make demonic consultation wortwhile?
(not a native speaker, so sorry for any language errors)