How do I beat a sphere-heavy shops hand when I'm on the draw without FoW?

@serracollector I don't think this would work for the situations I described. At 2 mana, SFM wouldn't be castable. As a 1/2 with an activated ability as well, ballista or revoker would shut her down before using her ability. If I can get to a spot where I can cast a 2 mana spell, I'm not locked and can probably win anyway (ET for Serenity for example). If fragmentize is too slow/uncastable vs the shop hands I described, I don't see how SFM can cut it.

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

How good do you think mindbreak trap is vs shops? They are going to drop their jewelry or inspectors before sphere. Only problem is that they are 100% dead in hand after turn 1.

But what you asking is comparable to the Trinisphere era. You act as if every game is turn 1 Trini and you don't have FoW. But....it's not. They do not always get lock peice into revoker into waste. For every game they do, they also get workshop, 3 moxen, and 2 ravager. The scenerios your bringing up nothing can beat except dredge or FoW, well, welcome to vintage for the last 15 years. No one can come up with some magical free card that don't exist that obliterates Mana denial affects because it don't exist, so why keep beating a dead horse?

@serracollector I'm not treating shops as if they always have trinisphere in reality. I know they don't always get the nut draw. 50% of the time I win the coin flip and I'm not even on the draw twice.

But that's not what I ever said. I can beat shops just fine. I actually consider it one of my favorable matchups.

What I am looking for is all the ways to beat a sphere/waste heavy shops opener when you are on the draw. It happens about 10% of the time, but that's what I'm looking for.

Perhaps I should edit the title to include "sphere-heavy hand". I think it's clear through the discussion, but I can see how the title is a bit misleading.

My point is, if you truly believe you can't cast a 1-2 Mana spell or creature on the draw versus a sphere heavy hand, then there is no answer. More lands, guides, and all the removal spells in magic have literally been named in this very thread. There are no more answers. Just realize your going to lose those 10% of games that happens. It's a random card game. 90% chance to win seems pretty damn good, why complain about the 10% you don't? Even if there was an answer, you'd still have to draw it, your simply not going to win 100% against....well...any tier 1 deck. That's kinda the point of it being a game right? Sometimes you lose and there is nothing you can do about it.

last edited by Serracollector

Ima start a thread about how to beat Ad Nauseum Tendrils on the draw with no FoW when the have a first-turn kill.

Well, I did at least get some ideas out of the discussion.

I know sometimes you are just going to get rolled. I don't mind when I get T1 POed, but dislike getting sphered out of a game and it taking 10 turns to kill me. More like a cat playing with a mouse before killing it.

I'd love to win them all, but there definitely has to be an equal chance for bonkers in several builds.

I was never actually complaining. I'd like to find ways to get out of spheres with 0 mana plays...but that doesn't mean I don't recognize that I will just lose some games. I was kinda hoping there was an obvious tactic I overlooked, but it seems not. Tabernacle was one I didn't consider, so this wasn't all for naught.

@dr-j

leyline of sanctity, like a boss.

last edited by Ten-Ten
  • 44
    Posts
  • 1892
    Views