@hrishi I agree that they need to start pushing other colors (and giving them blue mechanics). We'll never see ancestral or walk in another color, but we could see a cruise/dig in another color. They'd be in flavor too. Maybe something like "Bargain in Blood - Instant - BB: Pay X life to look at the top X cards of your library. Put two of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library."

But even with that, I think the threshold is FoW. Back in OS days, blue had walk, twister, and ancestral - and other colors could compete. Once FoW came out and the format sped up, blue was the ONLY color with an out to turn 1 wins. And to run FoW, you needed a critical mass of blue cards to support it, so that pushed other colors out even further. If there was a card like "Force of Death - 2BB - Instant - Counter target spell and lose 2 life. You may exile a black card from your hand instead of paying the casting cost," you'd see mono-black or black+ decks being played.

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

@chubbyrain It is not a complaint about any of the spells or the composition of the the current blue decks. I have been slowing coming back into Vintage after a short break and I started rebuilding all of my decks.

I have been studying the results since War of the Spark came out and I see not just a meta game shift but something a bit bigger happening.

I listen very regularly to the So Many Insane Plays podcast and they were not very high on Karn. There was buzz about Karn but no one was especially high on Karn.

Honestly, I was surprised by the new Karn builds. I focused on Narset like most people and was building decks to deal with her and play with the card and I have to admit that the format has moved beyond blue mirrors.

You will still play a lot of blue mirrors if you play blue but the decks that are defining the format are no longer blue.

That was the point of this thread.

last edited by moorebrother1

@moorebrother1 I'm inclined to disagree. Colorless is the other "color" you're referring to, and it's been defining the format (along with blue) since MWS was unrestricted. The only thing to enter the paradigm since then was dredge, and that defined sideboards (by virtually making them 7 card sideboards instead of 15) more than main decks. Blue and colorless have always been the two "colors" that ever mattered in vintage since the printing of Alliances.

@thewhitedragon69 That is true that colorless has been there for a while but blue player have been loathe to accept it. Whenever colorless gets stronger we just kind of wave it off or complain until that restrict something.

Colorless deserves the respect that blue gets at this point.

last edited by moorebrother1

It looks like a theoretical discussion about the nature of the format in broad terms. Colorless decks are on the rise but this development is somewhat offset by the fact that Dredge is now a de facto blue deck. It does everything Xerox hopes to accomplish but more potently--flooding the board with minimal investment and backing it with a wall of countermagic developed via hyperefficient filtering. Bazaar makes Dack Fayden look like a 7 CMC Theros rare.

That given, blue isn't waning; it's expanding overall by consuming what used to be a standalone Dredge archetype but then losing some market share to various Karn decks.

@brianpk80 I enjoyed that post.

Perhaps there should be a separation of objective "blue" to subjective "blue".

Yes, dredge is observably becoming more "blue" through the insertion of blue cards. That's a fact in the context of pitch dredge.

However in the subjective understanding of blue I believe that there is a dual axis "traditional" blue decks operate on.

A) counter magic
B) draw spells

Dredge has adopted the A, yet actively provided an antithesis to B (dredging to drawing) as the primary focus of their game plan.

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