@fsecco

The problem is that this is almost never 2-3 mana, at least not until super late game or in a Dredge deck that is going off.

As someone mentioned earlier, Mantis Rider can answer almost all planeswalkers in this fashion and is always 3 mana. There are other decent haste creatures too.

@vaughnbros yeah yeah, I know. Mantis Rider seems very bad as an answer to PWs tough. I mean, REB/Pyro are the best answers but if Karn gets even more prominent, doing 3 damage to him is not enough (he can still +1 then -2 and survive). So what other 4 power hasters do we have?
Also, I never counted lands in my graveyard to understand how much this would cost, but I think that without Dack or JVP we are always around 2-3 until midgame, right?

Just unrestricted Gush and Dack those lands away. Easy guys easy.

@fsecco said in [MH1] Ore-Scale Guardian:

So what other 4 power hasters do we have?

  • The cheapest evasive one is Hell's Thunder at 1RR. It has a Ball Lightning clause though, which kind of stinks, but it also has Unearth (if you forgot about this weird keyword, it's flashback for creatures basically) for 4R, which potentially lets you take down two PWs with it, albeit for a fairly large total investment.

  • If you can get by without evasion, stuff that sticks around costs 4. Some examples: Savage Knuckleblade (flexible in that it only actually costs 3 with an option to pay one extra for haste), Cliffrunner Behemoth (only gets haste if you have a red permanent but also has five power and sometimes lifelink too), Crocodile of the Crossing (nominally a 5/4, makes you put a -1/-1 counter on one of your creatures so is probably a 4/3, still fulfills the prompt), etc. Basically, these are creatures you've never heard of for a reason.

  • If you do need evasion, the things competing with this at the good-case 4 cmc all have other drawbacks. To me the best one looks like Falkenrath Aristocrat whose drawback is that it's a 4/1, also it's red/black. If trample is good enough, you have stuff like Fleetwheel Cruiser and Giant Solifuge, which both have their own issues.

  • If you can go up to 5cmc (which this card will probably be some of the time but not most of the time), you can get upside stuff like Glorybringer, Demigod of Revenge, Kuldotha Phoenix, etc.

  • Not technically an answer to this question but adjacent to it: Grull Spellbreaker is 3cmc for a 3/3 with trample, conditional hexproof, and riot, which means that it is in effect either a 3/3 haste or a 4/4 regular. So if trample is good enough evasion, you can still pick off the unsuspecting PW that has already been minused or bring it in stronger to get a sustained larger threat.

If you're looking for a hasty creature capable of taking down a planeswalker from high loyalty all by itself, there's also Keldon Champion, which hits for 6 in total on turn one and can stick around. I don't think it's good, but it exists.

@craw_advantage yeah, none of those come close to a 4/4 flyer for RR. The issue is that this is hard to actually play at RR, but the reason I posted it was because it was a 4/4 flyer/haste that stuck into play for 2-3 mana. All those options you gave seem very bad in comparison.
I think the only one that's close is Mantis Rider, but it seems so hard to cast and as I noted before 3 power is not enough to deal with Karn - and if you don't need to deal with Karn then Pyro/REB are just better anyway.

I posted the numbers above on how deep you have to get into your deck for this to be cheap. You are almost never casting this for 2 or 3 on curve. If this is 2 or 3 mana, it’s probably like turn 10. That completely defeats the purpose of its mana cost reduction.

@fsecco said in [MH1] Ore-Scale Guardian:

You probably need stuff like JVP to make this playable I guess, but I can't think of any other 2-3 mana solution to multiple PWs like this one. Direct removal is cool but this is CA if you manage to kill a PW with it. Maybe I'm forgetting something.

The Elderspell just got printed

@gutocmtt you realize I mention Elderspell in my original post, right? Trading 1 for 1 with a PW that just drew a card is not where I want to be though. This kills the PW and leaves a body behind, which is way better if you're paying RR x BB. I agree wihh everyone though that RR is hard to do.

I don’t wanna work this hard for this payoff. All the obvious enablers do more broken stuff.

last edited by ribby
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