SMIP: My Suggested B&R List (2019)

@desolutionist said in SMIP: My Suggested B&R List (2019):

Like why is Mystical Tutor-Tinker-Bolas totally fine, but Workshop, Mox, Mystic Forge is some scary thing that people can't handle. Blue can have all these avenues to do whatever they want and as soon as Shops as something reliably decent, it's a huge problem for the internet.

Because Mystical Tutor and Tinker are restricted and Mishra's Workshop is not.

last edited by Aaron Patten

@desolutionist You are proving the point. BUG, and only BUG, is doing well because it is the deck with decent match ups against Dredge and Shops without warping itself against to be non-competitive against the rest of the metagame. And overpowered means most decks can’t handle them. Where are the other decks that beat forge and Dredge? Unless you think it’s somehow BUG that’s overpowered. It is the context that you have to explain when looking at the format. Don’t pull the “Blue has these restricted cards so Shops should have these unrestricted cards” deflection...

And if you are bringing up Eternal Weekend Japan, you should mention the 3 BUG decks and 3 variants of Karn in the top 8. When even DPS is running 4 Karns, that really undermines Steve’s notion that somehow the card isn’t a problem or that restricting Monolith will fix it. Boy, I can’t wait until Misstep is restricted and Ritual into Karn is even easier...

@chubbyrain

Yeah you're probably right. I can't reasonably play anything other than BUG right now. Except maybe the DPS deck with Karn.

Beside Ritual, he also has Channel->Karn-> Lattice which is pretty cool. I like his list.

@desolutionist I love their list, too and want to jam it on stream, but I also think metagames are too complex to look at one stat in isolation and view that as representative. I think in the absence of Force of Vigor, Trophy, and Ouphe, Forge/Dredge would be much more incontrovertible problems but the absence of other answers for other decks really constrains deck diversity.

Since we are all saying ridiculous things today, lets unrestrict Monastery Mentor so Jeskai with main deck Stony Silence can race Assassins Trophy and Forge.dec. Unrestrict Thorn of Amethyst because blue has access to 8 FoW effects on the Draw. Finally, Restrict Mental Misstep 🙂

@horologium

  1. Narcomoeba is part of Dredge’s “manabase”. The deck is non functional without free creatures. Free creatures is what they pay for spells with.

  2. Yes, blue is broken.

  3. Vintage manabases are broken. They break the rules under which every other format operates. Adding inconsistency the most broken manabases is the most we can do with only a restricted list.

@p3temangus

Thorn never should’ve been restricted...

Blue only gets 1 Ancestral Recall while red gets to play 4 Lightning Bolts Willy nilly. Restrict Lightning Bolt!

@vaughnbros the manabases don't even have to become inconsistent, they have the option to become painful while still being fetch/dual/basic

I don't care if the Earth burns to cinders but for the love of Yawgmoth I hope Misstep is gone by Champs.

Would Dredge play crop rotation if misstep was restricted?

Probably not. It was legal before but it's been a long time since that's been a desirable option for the deck. The fundamental issue is that green mana source + Crop Rotation is less consistent than Serum Powder and costs a lot of space in the deck that could be used for more impactful things like free counterspells or more reliable speed elements such as Fatestitcher.

My unrealistic solution:
Restrict Karn, then print a 4 mana one sided null rod and a walker that tutors colorless cards from the sideboard.

@john-cox

I don’t think Crop Rotation was ever a legal 4-of before New Phyrexia. Card was pretty broken as a 1-of in shops and Storm before Misstep came around.

It was an obvious inclusion in early versions of Ichorid. I’m sure as a 4-of, brewers could be incentivized to play some green lands in a Bazaar deck.

Could be pretty good AGAINST Dredge as well.

It’s also one of those cards that used to be amazing but aren’t that great now. It would be great in the Depths decks for sure. If Misstep didn’t exist, It could also be awesome in PO style decks.

last edited by Guest

Iam all about restricting misstep.
This will help so many decks and probably chance the meta to a way more interactive one. I see ritual based decks seeing more play, i see those decks and control as well as midrange decks play duress and thoughtseize, which helps keeping Karn and Narset under control. People will probably start playing Spell pierce, which is also great against the mentioned and without misstep pitch dredge will become way less consistent with its disruption.

@desolutionist or just play Survival with Crop Rotation

@desolutionist
Crop Rotation was unrestricted in June 2009 and New Phyrexia released in May 2011. But there is no deck with more than 1 crop rotation in the mtgtop8.com base during that period.

Obviously the metagame is completely different now, it is difficult to make prediction from this.

On Mental Misstep:

Honestly, mental misstep is what keeps the meta interactive. Otherwise we would have players goldfishing on both sides of the table more often than we do now. (Storm doesn't need to be better.)
I like MM keeping restricted cards like ARecall and 1cmc tutors in check outside of them being restricted as well. Unfortunately, MM is necessary with all the 1cmc cantrips in existence at this point.

My 2cents anyway.

Edit:
@Smmenen
Duress effects will not get better with the restriction of MM. Duress effects aren't as good now because we have so much draw available than before.

Let's see..
the decks that run Karn, don't necessarily run MM. So, Duress could be used against them, except Duress has to happen before the taxing effects come down on the other side.

If Narset goes unrestricted and MM gets hit instead, Narset isn't going to be weaker. Duress here won't do much either. Decks running Narset have the big blue draw engine already to stay ahead.

Duress and effects like it, are weaker now, not because of MM but because of the powerful card draw available now. Let's face it, Duress effects are huge tempo loss in most decks now, unless they can win on the spot. (DPS/ANT)
Not only that but we have Collective Brutality available to us, which dodges MM and it's more versatile.

In the case of Dredge, Force of vigor/Negation would be more at fault for its current strength, not Misstep.
Also, Deathrite Shaman is doing just fine in the current meta. Doesn't look like MM is keeping it oppressed.

Spell pierce

Oi, this card used to be compared to Mana drain and as such, competed for slots in blue decks. Spell pierce is purely defensive, where MM can be proactive as well.
One of the main reasons Flusterstorm took the spot over pierce was simply because you can be more aggressive with your plan than you otherwise would be if you ran Pierce or other narrow counterspells.
If MM needs to be restricted merely on the grounds that Pierce and Duress is not played anymore/as much, then Flusterstorm should follow suite because it pushed Mana Drain out, as well as suppressing strategies relying on mostly instant and sorceries.

I hope I expressed myself well enough, apologies if I didn't.
I'm a bit under the weather but had to post my thoughts before they're rendered irrelevant by tomorrow's announcement.

last edited by Ten-Ten
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