Weissman cheating at GP Vegas Old School event

This is all bizarre. I kinda figured the whole point of old school was to not win

@albarkhane Source on the deleted Efro tweet was LSV...

https://twitter.com/lsv/status/1165856580027346944

Athena wants to move on and I think that was why the tweet was deleted.

last edited by Guest

Is it possible to throw the word “allegedly” in the OP’s thread title. I mean, damn.

@nadacool said in Weissman cheating at GP Vegas Old School event:

Is it possible to throw the word “allegedly” in the OP’s thread title. I mean, damn.

Much like deleting tweets, any damage my choice of words caused has already been done.

Just noticed that last year's (2018) champion's decklist photo has only 59 cards MD and 15 sideboard. Probably just missing Black Lotus, but isn't it bizarre how little attention that got?

If Weissman had never met, associated, or been seen with Daniel Chang/Vintage Magic, i'm guessing this would have been a lot less of an issue.

There's this thing that Old Schoolers keep insisting, that spikes aren't in old school and/or not welcome. There were at least 2 of my matches last year at the Eternal Weekend old school event where after 5 minutes in, I wanted to sign the slip and go have a beer because my opponents were jerks. I'm one of the super casuals so I agree with the thought we should all be worried about "the Gathering", and not "the Magic", but there is always someone trying to relive their glory days. Not sure why so many Old Schoolers are in denial of that but a lot of that initial messaging was "how could he cheat at something that didn't matter". It definitely matters to at least 20% of the players...

last edited by DanL15243

@danl15243 I seem to be out of the loop, but lately i heard a bunch of times that "Vintage Magic" and Chang aren't really to be trusted or whatever.
Could you bring me up to speed on that matter? What happened there, who are they and why are they so unliked in the community?

last edited by Aelien

@aelien I'm not going to comment on it in detail, but the popular story that goes around is that he cheated Quinton Hoover's widow out of a bunch of art on the cheap, but then I see other artists like Rob Alexander and Amy Weber still happy to work with him, so I don't really know? I'm not one for Gossip so I try to stay out of the internet drama but if you just google or Reddit search, i'm sure you'll get some info.

Googling is just the best way, because honestly, there has been more than one issue with that individual.

@danl15243 Hey Dan, yeah, I have considered skipping EW OS because of the high population of Old School "tourists", spikes from other formats. Four straight rounds of UR or WRU dibs and bolts with Spikes I don't know is not a generally a good time.

I think we deny it bc we wouldn't play with those people regularly or have them around regularly. They only come to EW bc it is an open tourney; some events that were open in 2018 were closed events in 2019, for this reason.

I don't deny it but I'm not gonna waste my time focusing on the sucky aspects (counterfeits, sociopaths) when talking about the format. Those 20% aren't really a part of the OS community even if they are playing the same format.

@cleverpseudonym said in Weissman cheating at GP Vegas Old School event:

@danl15243 Hey Dan, yeah, I have considered skipping EW OS because of the high population of Old School "tourists", spikes from other formats. Four straight rounds of UR or WRU dibs and bolts with Spikes I don't know is not a generally a good time.

I think we deny it bc we wouldn't play with those people regularly or have them around regularly. They only come to EW bc it is an open tourney; some events that were open in 2018 were closed events in 2019, for this reason.

I don't deny it but I'm not gonna waste my time focusing on the sucky aspects (counterfeits, sociopaths) when talking about the format. Those 20% aren't really a part of the OS community even if they are playing the same format.

So, playing with a goal to win is "sociopathic"?

People play old school for many reasons. Some play because they like the art and aesthetic. Some play for nostaligia. Some play because they like the mechanics and strategies. And there are other reasons besides.

I play because I used to play Type 1 back in 1994-1996, and I enjoy the specific cards, decks and strategies - so it's a mixture of enjoying the metagame and nostalgia. But the main reason I play is because I like playing my favorite cards and old school formats. Specifically, I enjoy using my experience and skills to try to design and tune decks for metagames I played in (competitively) when I was a teenager.

And for players who didn't play back in the day, either because they were too young or didn't know about Magic, "Old School Magic is an opportunity not only to learn about Magic’s past, but to experience it," as I wrote elsewhere.

But the idea that an Old School tournament must exclusively cater to causal players, and that players playing to win are "sociopaths" is as narrow minded as the reverse: that Old School is no place for casual players. It's got plenty of room for both. So maybe stop being so judgmental and just enjoy the full diversity of players in the room?

@fsecco said in Weissman cheating at GP Vegas Old School event:

Just noticed that last year's (2018) champion's decklist photo has only 59 cards MD and 15 sideboard. Probably just missing Black Lotus, but isn't it bizarre how little attention that got?

entirely probable that the deck photo was submitted before the event and the player was borrowing a lotus from someone at the event. or another innocuous reason.

so it's not really bizarre, mr internet detective.

@smmenen said in Weissman cheating at GP Vegas Old School event:

...

People play old school for many reasons. Some play because they like the art and aesthetic. Some play for nostaligia. Some play because they like the mechanics and strategies. And there are other reasons besides.

I play because I used to play Type 1 back in 1994-1996, and I enjoy the specific cards, decks and strategies - so it's a mixture of enjoying the metagame and nostalgia. But the main reason I play is because I like playing my favorite cards and old school formats. Specifically, I enjoy using my experience and skills to try to design and tune decks for metagames I played in (competitively) when I was a teenager.

And for players who didn't play back in the day, either because they were too young or didn't know about Magic, "Old School Magic is an opportunity not only to learn about Magic’s past, but to experience it," as I wrote elsewhere.
But the idea that an Old School tournament must exclusively cater to causal players, and that players playing to win are "sociopaths" is as narrow minded as the reverse: that Old School is no place for casual players. It's got plenty of room for both. So maybe stop being so judgmental and just enjoy the full diversity of players in the room?

You made a leap there. You connected my 20% statement, which was referencing Dan's comment about OS at EC:

Not sure why so many Old Schoolers are in denial of that but a lot of that initial messaging was "how could he cheat at something that didn't matter". It definitely matters to at least 20% of the players...

I was unclear in putting those two statements next to each other, how I structured my post and because I didn't address all of the content of Dan's post.

I definitely enjoy the full diversity of players in the room. I stated "Four straight rounds of UR or WRU dibs and bolts with Spikes I don't know is not a generally a good time." That doesn't mean it is not OK for someone to play that deck or them playing to win!

But I can also opine that I am much MORE ok when you come to win (or someone scoops you into Top Eight) because you are of the community and contribute. The specific 20% I was referring to was about EC OS EW Old School "tourists". I accept and celebrate all the reasons for playing that you have outlined. And for those who want to "experience it" netdecking UR burn, cool. I can also state that that is not a good time for me.

I placed that 20% statement next to one about other aspects of Old School I find unappealing, but those two things (counterfeits, sociopaths) are not related to my 20% comment, except they are all unappealing.

Hope that clarifies what I meant a bit.

@danl15243 I'm going to EW and playing The Deck. It will be my first and probably only Old School event in life (no one plays where I live) so I want to play with the deck I fell in love 20+ years ago. Does that make me a boring spike?

@cleverpseudonym FWIW, I read that part of your post separate from the rest and thought it was referring to instances like the one in question with Weismann, since that is what this thread is about.

I think there is a happy medium here, and I think Old Schoolers might need to be a little more open to "tourists." Granted, those tourists might show up with a Netdeck The Deck, but if they have a good time, they might become more frequent players, hence building the community.

The annoyance many people get from sitting across from a Spike and a competitive player in OS can be just as odious as my converse experience last year at EW. I brought a deck that was a carbon copy of a deck I played back in 1995 as a teenager. I happened to first turn Tundra-Ancestral and immediately my "casual" opponent gave off a sigh worthy of the Simpsons Comic Guy and bemoaned having to play The Deck again. He didn't wait to see anything else (not that my deck was terribly creative), but it wasn't a grindy The Deck.

I think Old School players need to realize that at a large tournament or gathering, there will plenty of Spikes and not everyone will cheer your innovative use of Xenic Poltergeist. Large tournaments are some people's only chance to play Old School, why wouldn't they want to play a deck they like.

And while I can't condone someone trying to Spike a 4 round side tournament in the most annoying way possible, it is Magic and we all sit across from people we know we aren't going to like.

Like any format, the attitude you bring into the match, is what often you will experience.

last edited by joshuabrooks

@joshuabrooks said in Weissman cheating at GP Vegas Old School event:

Like any format, what you bring into the match, is what often you will experience.

I've recently taken to bringing a belly full of beer and a terrible deck to most matches. Life is far more enjoyable when you're not eligible for prizes.

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