August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement

Survival might be the best Bazaar deck now...

This might roughly roll us back to like 3 months ago. BUG should remain the best deck.

Aggro shops gets fucking destroyed by Jund. It's a bye. So if people go back to Ravager shops they will get beaten on by 4 x Ouphe BUG / Jund / RUG. Resolving Noble Hierarch, DRS are also great vs. Shops.

As far as Fastbond in Lands, that's not nearly as big as restricting Misstep. Exploration, and Manabond were decent substitutes and don't have the damage. Crop Rotation / Gamble and Entomb resolving are way more impactful than +1-3 Fastbonds.

Pithing Needle, Cage, DRS, Surgical not getting Misstepped will make dredge less reliable, losing 3 x Green Turds will make FoV less reliable.

This is a huge win for Eternal Weekend. Fuck Mental Misstep, burn in hell.

@nedleeds said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

Aggro shops gets fucking destroyed by Jund. It's a bye. So if people go back to Ravager shops they will get beaten on by 4 x Ouphe BUG / Jund / RUG. Resolving Noble Hierarch, DRS are also great vs. Shops.

As far as Fastbond in Lands, that's not nearly as big as restricting Misstep. Exploration, and Manabond were decent substitutes and don't have the damage. Crop Rotation / Gamble and Entomb resolving are way more impactful than +1-3 Fastbonds.

Pithing Needle, Cage, DRS, Surgical not getting Misstepped will make dredge less reliable, losing 3 x Green Turds will make FoV less reliable.

This is a huge win for Eternal Weekend. Fuck Mental Misstep, burn in hell.

You may actually see Duress again. But part of why Fastbond being such a big deal is clearly the fact that it's not walking into a 4x MM meta to start with. That was the single card that would have prevented it from ever being a deck.

I'm kind of bummed now because my opponent's are still going to have Misstep and Ancestral in their opening hands every game. Except now I don't have Karn or my own Missteps to at least put up a good fight.

@desolutionist You know what they say. It's better to be lucky than good!

@thecravenone

Maybe its time to go back to Misdirection

@desolutionist i can see people tutoring for Ancestral way more often, so that might be a good idea

@wfain said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

Survival might be the best Bazaar deck now...

I don't think so.

Restricting a single dredger is kind of like restricting a dual land but no fetch lands - you're still going to find it pretty quickly and use it over and over. Granted, fetchlands find their target a bit more quickly, but a single GGT is way more impactful than a single of some other draw engine card like Library of Alexandria or Gush.

The logic against MM is laughable to say the least.
I'm In the minority here, but that's ok.

To consider windfall to be unrestricted at any point is ludicrous as well. But I guess since they've "paid attention to vintag these past few months",they're probably correct. Lol.

@ajfirecracker said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

@wfain said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

Survival might be the best Bazaar deck now...

I don't think so.

Restricting a single dredger is kind of like restricting a dual land but no fetch lands - you're still going to find it pretty quickly and use it over and over. Granted, fetchlands find their target a bit more quickly, but a single GGT is way more impactful than a single of some other draw engine card like Library of Alexandria or Gush.

This. In effect banning 3 copies of grave troll just turns those slots into stinkweeds, then the stinkweed slots into Thugs, and any left over slots from Thugs into either Darkblast, Life from the loam, or Shambling Shell.

So you reduced the decks base dredge value by 3, but also possibly forced it into having more answers for things by giving them darkblast, or having a target that can be pitched to Force of Vigor or Contagion. The times where you reanimated a troll are minimal at best, so it's not even a strict downgrade for the deck. The Mental Misstep restriction I believe hits the deck harder than the Gravetroll one does.

@protoaddict said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

@ajfirecracker said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

@wfain said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

Survival might be the best Bazaar deck now...

I don't think so.

Restricting a single dredger is kind of like restricting a dual land but no fetch lands - you're still going to find it pretty quickly and use it over and over. Granted, fetchlands find their target a bit more quickly, but a single GGT is way more impactful than a single of some other draw engine card like Library of Alexandria or Gush.

This. In effect banning 3 copies of grave troll just turns those slots into stinkweeds, then the stinkweed slots into Thugs, and any left over slots from Thugs into either Darkblast, Life from the loam, or Shambling Shell.

So you reduced the decks base dredge value by 3, but also possibly forced it into having more answers for things by giving them darkblast, or having a target that can be pitched to Force of Vigor or Contagion. The times where you reanimated a troll are minimal at best, so it's not even a strict downgrade for the deck. The Mental Misstep restriction I believe hits the deck harder than the Gravetroll one does.

Apparently they think devoting 10 sideboard slots for a matchup is a good thing for the format. Imagine a Vintage where you could sideboard for more than just two decks.

last edited by desolutionist

On Dredge, hitting Troll makes Force of Vigor and thus manaless much worse. Getting to a high Green was already difficult and hitting the best green card in the deck will make that more difficult. Mana versions of the deck are not going to be affected as much.

Misstep was pretty bad in most metagames (as 1CC hate was few and far between) so some dredge lists will get better by being forced to cut them.

It will also get better by virtue of its worst matchup, Karn Shops, getting hitting with multiple restrictions. Shops will be pushed back towards an aggro deck, which helps Dredge a lot.

So in sum, the best version of Dredge, manaless, is probably worse off, but the other versions with mana are probably better off.

@vaughnbros said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

Misstep was pretty bad in most metagames (as 1CC hate was few and far between) so some dredge lists will get better by being forced to cut them.

I'm not sure I believe this. Pithing Needle on Bazaar is the single best hate vs. Dredge because it hoses the graveyard and Hollow One and prevents the Dredge pilot from finding anti-hate.

@nedleeds

Well Needle can be entirely ignored game 3 (when Dredge is on the play). So it’s really not that good.

Needle was only a 1 or 2 of in most lists, and can be outed by almost any other anti hate Force of Will, Force of Vigor, Unmask, Chewer, ect., ect. Even Ancient Grudge from the yard hits it.

A little sidenote on Fastbond. A friend of mine and I jammed some games with it and it just seems stupid. Of course those were just a couple of games of combo mirrors, but Fastbond just seems plain stupid in a High Tide shell. I side on the "Misstep should've stayed unrestricted."

@vaughnbros said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

@nedleeds

Well Needle can be entirely ignored game 3 (when Dredge is on the play). So it’s really not that good.

Needle was only a 1 or 2 of in most lists, and can be outed by almost any other anti hate Force of Will, Force of Vigor, Unmask, Chewer, ect., ect. Even Ancient Grudge from the yard hits it.

Whether Needle was a 1 or 2 yesterday is irrelevant. It wasn't being played as widely in large part because it got Misstepped.

Yes, artifacts can be destroyed. Yes, many Magic cards get worse on the draw. Yes Magic cards can be Duressed on the draw.

I can Force your Force ... see there I did it too. Dredge would happily keep a hand with a Bazaar knowing it's an engine to find removal for permanent based hate, they'd happily keep a double Hollow One opener. Needle is proactive and stops the engine. It's a great card vs. dredge, losing 3 Missteps helps this card resolve. If dredge has to pay mana for the anti-hate cards again we've made progress.

last edited by nedleeds

@grizzly said in August 26, 2019 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

A little sidenote on Fastbond. A friend of mine and I jammed some games with it and it just seems stupid. Of course those were just a couple of games of combo mirrors, but Fastbond just seems plain stupid in a High Tide shell. I side on the "Misstep should've stayed unrestricted."

If High Tide top 8's Eternal Weekend I'll buy the competitor a raft.

@protoaddict
All of that is why I said what I did. GGT obviously gave the most explosive dredge hands. MM helped keep bad things from happening (and gave a higher blue count for Forces). Without those things, I’d argue Survival is just a better, more resilient deck.

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