@desolutionist said in Fastbond Brainstorming:

There’s not a deck in Vintage that works well as a glass cannon. I would want to try playing enough green cards for Force of Vigor.

Dark Heart of Wood and Overgrown Estate are both Zuran Orb effects that can be pitched to Force of Vigor. Going this route also allows use of Collector Ouphe, a staple in the new metagame.

There’s also Gitrog Monster.

I've been looking at dark heart of the woods myself. I like the idea of running away from using artifacts with activated abilities personally because I think null rod is going to be a real thing, and that way perhaps there is a build were we can run combo and still use oophe and karn. It's also why I was considering something as awkward as Troubled Healer, since it allows you to combo and can actually protect your creatures from bolt. If the deck is BUG then you can run duress to clear the path and have a compliment of counters and vigor to not be pure combo.

Dr. Rich Shay has just streamed with a Hedron Crab version (to mill the opponent). It seemed quite good. I recommend checking out the replay.

@desolutionist all this time Misstep was protecting us from Hedron Crab and we didn't even know it

You know what I’d try? Lotus Field and Frantic Search. Maybe Time Spiral and Amulet of Vigor. Yeah something janky like that.

Cool! I follow Justin but last week I couldn't watch any stream. Will watch the replay, thanks!

I've been watching a number of streams around fastbond and I'm really starting to wonder if running Moxen makes sense.

Lotus seems to still be worth it because it can give you explosive broken turns, but I have watched enough matches played now where a player got a mox stuck on top with a courser in play, or useless in hand with either their or an opponents oophe in play that I feel like it would be better to cut even the on color ones more often than now.

I mean, I can 100% say I think running off color moxen are wrong, but I think I want to test running none and going heavier on Oophe and Cotv. If we need fast mana in this list I also wonder if running ESG is not a better option.

Does anybody have ideas on using Fastbond with Smokestack? I think BG Stax could be cool in reinforcing the weakness of mono brown stax, but not quite sure how to go about it.

last edited by Horvath

I have been having pretty good success against some friends with a Fastbond list using cloudstone curio to go infinite. That way I am not reliant on specific land draws like amulet lists and graveyard hate isnt a problem for me. I can use cards like mikoroko and bazaar to sift through my deck and can kill with sunscorched desert

Been toying with this Gift Intuition Fastbond version. Your main combo will be setting up Fastbond+ Crucible + Wasteland/Bazaar/Glacial chasm combo where you can draw your whole deck and win with Cephalid Coliseum. This can easily be done through tutors like Intuition, Gift ungiven, Demonic tutor, Merchant scroll, Crop Rotation. As for the sideboard you can turn into Oath deck. This is a rough copy of the deck.

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

1 Island
2 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
1 Fiery Islet
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Inventors' Fair
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

4 Fastbond
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Mental Misstep
1 Noxious Revival
1 Ponder
1 Gush
2 Mana Drain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Life from the Loam
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
4 Crucible of Worlds
2 Intuition
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Force of Will

Sideboard
4 Oath of Druids
1 Archon of valor reach
1 Muldrotha
3 Tormods crypt
2 Flusterstorm
1 Mindbreak Trap
3 Null Rod

last edited by covetousrat

@jetstrike maybe I played you online? Anywho, played a version with Curio and salted a bit when they always had it. How many do you run?

Seems like Curio will be kind of dead a lot of times. Cool you are having success with it.

last edited by cleverpseudonym

Sensei's top gets ridiculous with Ramunap Excavator. Or just on its own with all the Fetchlands you can play.

@john-cox said in Fastbond Brainstorming:

Sensei's top gets ridiculous with Ramunap Excavator. Or just on its own with all the Fetchlands you can play.

The only reason I think I don't want to run top in the list for this exact reason is that I think I would rather just run 4x Null Rods. The thing I have come to realize is that playing Null rod can make your opponent play fair, but playing fast bond into nullrod makes it so that you become the player playing unfair.

The combo and aggro versions really feel rough in the all the testing / leagues that I've tried to run so far. The control version (with Workshop) seem by far the best builds right now, but I think that may just be because its easier to build that variant (you can take so many things from Shops). I think in a similar fashion, the combo/aggro versions, probably need to borrow more powerful interactions from a decks like Survival, BUG, or Storm to give it some powerful things to do when it doesn't manage to resolve its multi-card combos.

I have been testing several Fastbond decks fairly regularly.

The deck that will probably be best is Turbo - Gush:
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Island
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
3 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Force Of Will
1 Gush
4 Intuition
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Echoing Truth
4 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
2 Argivian Find
sideboard:
4 Wasteland
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Trygon Predator
3 Pithing Needle

I am not sure how many Fastbonds this deck should run but I am thinking it would be at least 3 and maybe 4. I do not know what to cut.
Ponder has felt like the worst card for a while and Fastbond is a 1 drop.
Also with 3 Fastbonds, perhaps 2 Argivian Find is not needed.
So maybe go -1 Ponder, -1 Argivian Find, +2 Fastbond.
Then you can Gifts for Fastbond, Crucible, Find, Regrowth.

There was an era maybe a year or so ago when this was the very top performing deck in my meta. That sounds weird, but it worked out at the time because Grafdigger's Cage had convinced a lot of people to drop their other Graveyard hate from their board. Grafdigger's cage does nothing against this deck. You can still play lands from the yard and AK for 4 and Argivian Find Fastbond etc. So a bunch of decks had little to no sideboard plan.

Recently the meta had turned against this deck. Because Dredge became so strong there was actually some main deck hate and that had more or less crushed it. Also decks running a lot of Mental Missteps are problematic.

This deck is very, very powerful but it is also fragile.

All of you running Glacial Chasm should probably switch to Nomad Stadium.
If you run a Nomad Stadium and a 1 Tundra then you can gain infinite life and ignore Fastbond damage.
Nomad Stadium taps for mana and does not sacrifice a land.

EDIT: The sideboard I listed was for a prior meta where I was mostly worried about Dredge and Workshop Aggro. I don't know what I would use right now.

last edited by meadbert

Okay, so you have a point about Glacial Chasm having uses that go far beyond Nomad Stadium, but Nomad Stadium is still better.

Glacial Chasm is probably best against something like Dredge. Against Shops, they have Wastelands and their mana denial strategy is greatly enhanced by you playing one land that doesn't tap for mana and then tapping another land.

On top of that you lose life unless you sac the Chasm anyway.

Against Paradoxical you run into the problem that Tendrils is life loss and not damage.

So, assuming that Chasm is for the combo, you are better off running Nomad Stadium because it does not set you back 2 mana before you combo.

There are some decks like 43land.dec where Chasm is surely better than Nomad Stadium.

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