Cool! I follow Justin but last week I couldn't watch any stream. Will watch the replay, thanks!

I've been watching a number of streams around fastbond and I'm really starting to wonder if running Moxen makes sense.

Lotus seems to still be worth it because it can give you explosive broken turns, but I have watched enough matches played now where a player got a mox stuck on top with a courser in play, or useless in hand with either their or an opponents oophe in play that I feel like it would be better to cut even the on color ones more often than now.

I mean, I can 100% say I think running off color moxen are wrong, but I think I want to test running none and going heavier on Oophe and Cotv. If we need fast mana in this list I also wonder if running ESG is not a better option.

Does anybody have ideas on using Fastbond with Smokestack? I think BG Stax could be cool in reinforcing the weakness of mono brown stax, but not quite sure how to go about it.

last edited by Horvath

I have been having pretty good success against some friends with a Fastbond list using cloudstone curio to go infinite. That way I am not reliant on specific land draws like amulet lists and graveyard hate isnt a problem for me. I can use cards like mikoroko and bazaar to sift through my deck and can kill with sunscorched desert

Been toying with this Gift Intuition Fastbond version. Your main combo will be setting up Fastbond+ Crucible + Wasteland/Bazaar/Glacial chasm combo where you can draw your whole deck and win with Cephalid Coliseum. This can easily be done through tutors like Intuition, Gift ungiven, Demonic tutor, Merchant scroll, Crop Rotation. As for the sideboard you can turn into Oath deck. This is a rough copy of the deck.

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

1 Island
2 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
1 Fiery Islet
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Inventors' Fair
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

4 Fastbond
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Mental Misstep
1 Noxious Revival
1 Ponder
1 Gush
2 Mana Drain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Life from the Loam
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
4 Crucible of Worlds
2 Intuition
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Force of Will

Sideboard
4 Oath of Druids
1 Archon of valor reach
1 Muldrotha
3 Tormods crypt
2 Flusterstorm
1 Mindbreak Trap
3 Null Rod

last edited by covetousrat

@jetstrike maybe I played you online? Anywho, played a version with Curio and salted a bit when they always had it. How many do you run?

Seems like Curio will be kind of dead a lot of times. Cool you are having success with it.

last edited by cleverpseudonym

Sensei's top gets ridiculous with Ramunap Excavator. Or just on its own with all the Fetchlands you can play.

@john-cox said in Fastbond Brainstorming:

Sensei's top gets ridiculous with Ramunap Excavator. Or just on its own with all the Fetchlands you can play.

The only reason I think I don't want to run top in the list for this exact reason is that I think I would rather just run 4x Null Rods. The thing I have come to realize is that playing Null rod can make your opponent play fair, but playing fast bond into nullrod makes it so that you become the player playing unfair.

The combo and aggro versions really feel rough in the all the testing / leagues that I've tried to run so far. The control version (with Workshop) seem by far the best builds right now, but I think that may just be because its easier to build that variant (you can take so many things from Shops). I think in a similar fashion, the combo/aggro versions, probably need to borrow more powerful interactions from a decks like Survival, BUG, or Storm to give it some powerful things to do when it doesn't manage to resolve its multi-card combos.

I have been testing several Fastbond decks fairly regularly.

The deck that will probably be best is Turbo - Gush:
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Island
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
3 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Force Of Will
1 Gush
4 Intuition
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Echoing Truth
4 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
2 Argivian Find
sideboard:
4 Wasteland
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Trygon Predator
3 Pithing Needle

I am not sure how many Fastbonds this deck should run but I am thinking it would be at least 3 and maybe 4. I do not know what to cut.
Ponder has felt like the worst card for a while and Fastbond is a 1 drop.
Also with 3 Fastbonds, perhaps 2 Argivian Find is not needed.
So maybe go -1 Ponder, -1 Argivian Find, +2 Fastbond.
Then you can Gifts for Fastbond, Crucible, Find, Regrowth.

There was an era maybe a year or so ago when this was the very top performing deck in my meta. That sounds weird, but it worked out at the time because Grafdigger's Cage had convinced a lot of people to drop their other Graveyard hate from their board. Grafdigger's cage does nothing against this deck. You can still play lands from the yard and AK for 4 and Argivian Find Fastbond etc. So a bunch of decks had little to no sideboard plan.

Recently the meta had turned against this deck. Because Dredge became so strong there was actually some main deck hate and that had more or less crushed it. Also decks running a lot of Mental Missteps are problematic.

This deck is very, very powerful but it is also fragile.

All of you running Glacial Chasm should probably switch to Nomad Stadium.
If you run a Nomad Stadium and a 1 Tundra then you can gain infinite life and ignore Fastbond damage.
Nomad Stadium taps for mana and does not sacrifice a land.

EDIT: The sideboard I listed was for a prior meta where I was mostly worried about Dredge and Workshop Aggro. I don't know what I would use right now.

last edited by meadbert

Okay, so you have a point about Glacial Chasm having uses that go far beyond Nomad Stadium, but Nomad Stadium is still better.

Glacial Chasm is probably best against something like Dredge. Against Shops, they have Wastelands and their mana denial strategy is greatly enhanced by you playing one land that doesn't tap for mana and then tapping another land.

On top of that you lose life unless you sac the Chasm anyway.

Against Paradoxical you run into the problem that Tendrils is life loss and not damage.

So, assuming that Chasm is for the combo, you are better off running Nomad Stadium because it does not set you back 2 mana before you combo.

There are some decks like 43land.dec where Chasm is surely better than Nomad Stadium.

I had a thought about an improvement to Ziasbond or some variant.

What about running Oath of Druids with no creatures?

The idea would be to Oath your entire library. Then you can Memory's Journey Black Lotus into your library.

Then for 2 mana in play + Lotus you can flash back Sevinne's Reclamation for Fastbond + Crucible and win on the spot.

I have been toying around with 2 lists, which are NOT Ziasbond lists but have some similarities and Oath has been an all-star card because the deck has no need for it whatsoever, yet Oath also wins the game the next turn most of the time.

Turbo-Oath:
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
4 Crucible Of World
1 Time Walk
4 Force Of Will
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Intuition
2 Memory's Journey
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Pierce
4 Oath Of Druid
4 Fastbond
1 Sevinne's Reclamation
1 Argivian Find

Because you are Oathing your whole library, you can get away with running 1 each of combo pieces like Nomad Stadium and Cephalid Coliseum.

If you only run 1 of each then you really want Gifts and Intution to find all your combo lands in one run.

So you can Intution for 3xCrucible, 3xFastbond, 3xOath or 3xOrchard.
You can Gifts for Fastbond,Crucible, Reclamation and Find to get your combo.
Depending on if your opponent might have Counters you can get Black Lotus.

Gush is a notable exclusion. I am tempted to swap out the Spell Pierce to add Gush, but Gush is randomly dead in hand and not being able to counter creatures is less scary now that I have Oath.

The downside of Oath is Grafdigger's Cage so it is convenient that the rest of the engine works just fine with a Cage in play. You can still Gifts for Fastbond, Crucible, Find and Reclamation to just win through Cage.

I have not settled on a sideboard, but you can easily add a few creatures to use that as an alternate win if your Graveyard is hated out.

I have not tried this in Ziasbond, but it seems you could drop the Inutitions and Gifts and then run more combo lands (Glacial Chasm, Nomad Stadium) and then Oath up Rasputin Dreamweaver to have enough mana to win through your own Resistors.

Tasigur might be a nice inclusion as a 1 of creature to do infinite things with as well. I like it 😊

I would probably run Battlefield Scrounger before Tasigur. Could just recycle 2xRegrowth and Time Walk or something, but if my yard is not hated out I would rather just win and if it is hated out, I want creatures that are fatter than 3/3.

What would be the best options for creatures in the sideboard?

@meadbert although the idea seems nice, I don't think you want to be in a place where you lose to a single counterspell after you Oath.
It's also a problem that if you do the golden Oath turn 1 (Orchard, Mox, Oath) you can't win unless you have another mana in hand.

There are 27 mana sources + Argivan Find which functions as an any color Dark Ritual so the 3rd mana is not too hard to find.
If you miss your turn 2 land drop you are usually in trouble either way.
If you have Fastbond + Crucible in hand then you can win with just the 2 mana you used for Oath.

If you really just don't have the win, then throw back Sol Ring and Black Lotus with your Memory's Journey and win on turn 3 instead of turn 2. As far as hands missing a turn 2 land drop, winning on turn 3 is pretty decent.

It is TERRIBLE to lose to one counterspell after Oathing and that is why there is a 2nd Memory's Journey.
If first Journey is countered, you have a second. The second one is very important and you brought up an excellent point!

I have even considered a 3rd Memory's Journey in the Spell Pierce slot. The graveyard hate is decent. Pitching to Force is decent. Occasionally I want to Flashback one Memory's Journey to use the other two to keep refilling my library so I never deck myself. Mostly this shows up if Coliseum was exiled and I have infinite life (which most decks just can't handle right now) so I just try to assemble a hand full of counters and wait for my opponent to deck themselves. This situation is rare enough that I consider the 3rd Memory's Journey not worth it.

So basically if you have 3 mana out and your Sevinne's Reclamation gets countered, then the next turn you can throw back Fastbond + Crucible + Argivian Find. You won't get them all in one turn, but it now takes a total of 3 Counter Spells to stop your win. I am not saying this is ideal, but it is better than just losing to a single counterspell.

I can't speak to what happens post board because I have not settled on a sideboard and I have not even settled on how to board against this deck. Is Grafdigger's Cage even worth it?

Pre-board against the top decks according to mtggoldfish the two main forms of maindeck hate are Ziasbond using Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog, Survival having Deathrite Shaman and White Eldrazi having Thalia who makes my land be tapped.

Deathrite Shaman is a disaster, but the list on mtg goldfish only has 2 and usually you can race them if have to use Survival to find Shaman. Also you might have Mental Misstep or Force for Shaman. Thalia is scary, but occasionally too slow and there are no tutors to find Thalia, but she is a huge problem.
Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog just beats me if I don't have the counter. One of the knocks on Spell Pierce is that Ziasbond is likely to have the extra 2 mana to ignore my Spell Pierce on Crop Rotation.
These three hate pieces are one of the main reasons that I badly need Force of Will and to a lesser extent Mental Misstep. Shaman and Thalia are huge knocks against Spell Pierce. Force of Negation won't work either.
I also tested Daze which is solid against Thalia, but frequently too slow against Shaman and is even less likely to work against Ziasbond.

Getting back to the counters. Of the top 8 decks on mtggoldfish only 2 even run counters. Those are Paradoxical and Dreadhorde. Paradoxical runs 4 relevant counters because Mental Misstep can't counter Reclamation or Memory's Journey. Paradoxical will need to use 3 of its 4 Force of Wills over 4 turns and hope that you have none of your counters. I am comfortable conceding the loss in a situation that rare.

Dreadhorde runs 6-9 relevant counters. 3 Pyroblasts can only counter the Memory's Journey which is why there is a second. This is probably what you had in mind, but it is still unlikely that Dread Horde can assemble 3 non Pyro counters over 4 turns or double Pyro in one turn or Pyro one turns and then 3 non pyro counters the next 3 turns. Imagine you are the Dreadhorde player and you have like 3 counters in hand. I am pretty sure you just counter Oath. Non need to risk some huge creature coming into play next turn.

Dreadehorde is actually a major motivation for adding the Oaths. Basically you can't keep up in card advantage against Dreadhorde and mana denial is ineffective. Oath is one of the best ways to deal with Dreadhorde. Ziasbond keeps its Dreadhorde matchup decent by running 0 blue spells and zero creatures so Swords, Bolt and Pyro lack targets. The lists that I have been testing all either had blue cards to Pyroblast or Ramunap Excavator or Collector Ouphe to bold or Swords. Oath is actually really good in that matchup!

So as far as maindeck hate goes I worry about Thalia, Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog and Shaman far more than seeing 3 Force of Wills over 4 turns while having no counters myself.

If going a single creature route then another thought I had is Muldrotha the Gravetide.

She lets you play both Fastbond and Crucible out of the yard for a total of 4 mana. Since you can get one land from your yard to begin with you really only need 3 mana, so she is an alternative to Rasputin Dreamweaver and actually has some synergy with Ziasbond in general although her colors are wrong. I liked Rasputin in the Ziasbond variant because on problem is the Resistors can make it touch to combo out and Rasputin just dodges that because the 7 mana is plenty.

For my list Muldrotha has the benefit of being reasonable to hardcast (if I can find a black source) and being blue. Any creature that can be pitched to Force is huge because a limitation of my list is it only has 19 Blue cards so every blue card helps to keep Force viable.

I am still leaning towards creatureless in the maindeck because I just don't have room for multiple Stadiums or Coliseums and then creatures that ignore the graveyard post board since I will mostly want them when my yard is hated out.

Because of the maindeck hate I am tempted to add a Chain of Vapor in place of Spell Pierce. A singleton Chain helps a lot against Thalia. A main drawback is having fewer counters for Crop Rotation.

@meadbert

I tried Sevinne's Reclamation in a few of the lists, both with and without the Oath sideboard, and liked it quite a bit.

To make Reclamation reliable with the Oath board, I adopted @brianpk80's tech of using Oath creatures that prevent the opponent from casting spells on your turn.

The three creatures I tried were Dragonlord Dromoka, Archon of Valor's Reach (naming instant), and Sanctum Prelate (e.g., name 4 for Ravenous Trap, 5 for FOW etc.).

Of these creatures, Archon of Valor's Reach was the most powerful when it hit the board, as it effectively ends the game against most decks on the spot. The Prelate had a smaller impact, but was easier to cast and is simply more reliable. Dromoka was hit-or-miss. The lifelink and uncounterability were nice, but she often didn't stick around long enough to execute the Loam plan.

Oathing into Prelate may seem counterintuitive, but it can actually be quite effective in allowing you to play Loam without worrying about disruption. You can play multiple Prelates, too, meaning that you can shut the opponent down from multiple angles (against Xerox, naming 1, 4, and 5 in order locks them out of the most relevant counterplay). You needn't fear Cage, either, as your castable threat goes right to the top of your library (a sort of build-your-own Worldly Tutor, which is also tech from our dear Mr. Dragonlord).

I liked Oathing into castable creatures, like Prelate, Ouphe, and threats, like Ramnunap Excavator. The point of these creatures isn't to win the game on their own like Griselbrand, but to enable your original gameplan or slow down your opponent.

last edited by Zias
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