I would probably run Battlefield Scrounger before Tasigur. Could just recycle 2xRegrowth and Time Walk or something, but if my yard is not hated out I would rather just win and if it is hated out, I want creatures that are fatter than 3/3.

What would be the best options for creatures in the sideboard?

@meadbert although the idea seems nice, I don't think you want to be in a place where you lose to a single counterspell after you Oath.
It's also a problem that if you do the golden Oath turn 1 (Orchard, Mox, Oath) you can't win unless you have another mana in hand.

There are 27 mana sources + Argivan Find which functions as an any color Dark Ritual so the 3rd mana is not too hard to find.
If you miss your turn 2 land drop you are usually in trouble either way.
If you have Fastbond + Crucible in hand then you can win with just the 2 mana you used for Oath.

If you really just don't have the win, then throw back Sol Ring and Black Lotus with your Memory's Journey and win on turn 3 instead of turn 2. As far as hands missing a turn 2 land drop, winning on turn 3 is pretty decent.

It is TERRIBLE to lose to one counterspell after Oathing and that is why there is a 2nd Memory's Journey.
If first Journey is countered, you have a second. The second one is very important and you brought up an excellent point!

I have even considered a 3rd Memory's Journey in the Spell Pierce slot. The graveyard hate is decent. Pitching to Force is decent. Occasionally I want to Flashback one Memory's Journey to use the other two to keep refilling my library so I never deck myself. Mostly this shows up if Coliseum was exiled and I have infinite life (which most decks just can't handle right now) so I just try to assemble a hand full of counters and wait for my opponent to deck themselves. This situation is rare enough that I consider the 3rd Memory's Journey not worth it.

So basically if you have 3 mana out and your Sevinne's Reclamation gets countered, then the next turn you can throw back Fastbond + Crucible + Argivian Find. You won't get them all in one turn, but it now takes a total of 3 Counter Spells to stop your win. I am not saying this is ideal, but it is better than just losing to a single counterspell.

I can't speak to what happens post board because I have not settled on a sideboard and I have not even settled on how to board against this deck. Is Grafdigger's Cage even worth it?

Pre-board against the top decks according to mtggoldfish the two main forms of maindeck hate are Ziasbond using Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog, Survival having Deathrite Shaman and White Eldrazi having Thalia who makes my land be tapped.

Deathrite Shaman is a disaster, but the list on mtg goldfish only has 2 and usually you can race them if have to use Survival to find Shaman. Also you might have Mental Misstep or Force for Shaman. Thalia is scary, but occasionally too slow and there are no tutors to find Thalia, but she is a huge problem.
Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog just beats me if I don't have the counter. One of the knocks on Spell Pierce is that Ziasbond is likely to have the extra 2 mana to ignore my Spell Pierce on Crop Rotation.
These three hate pieces are one of the main reasons that I badly need Force of Will and to a lesser extent Mental Misstep. Shaman and Thalia are huge knocks against Spell Pierce. Force of Negation won't work either.
I also tested Daze which is solid against Thalia, but frequently too slow against Shaman and is even less likely to work against Ziasbond.

Getting back to the counters. Of the top 8 decks on mtggoldfish only 2 even run counters. Those are Paradoxical and Dreadhorde. Paradoxical runs 4 relevant counters because Mental Misstep can't counter Reclamation or Memory's Journey. Paradoxical will need to use 3 of its 4 Force of Wills over 4 turns and hope that you have none of your counters. I am comfortable conceding the loss in a situation that rare.

Dreadhorde runs 6-9 relevant counters. 3 Pyroblasts can only counter the Memory's Journey which is why there is a second. This is probably what you had in mind, but it is still unlikely that Dread Horde can assemble 3 non Pyro counters over 4 turns or double Pyro in one turn or Pyro one turns and then 3 non pyro counters the next 3 turns. Imagine you are the Dreadhorde player and you have like 3 counters in hand. I am pretty sure you just counter Oath. Non need to risk some huge creature coming into play next turn.

Dreadehorde is actually a major motivation for adding the Oaths. Basically you can't keep up in card advantage against Dreadhorde and mana denial is ineffective. Oath is one of the best ways to deal with Dreadhorde. Ziasbond keeps its Dreadhorde matchup decent by running 0 blue spells and zero creatures so Swords, Bolt and Pyro lack targets. The lists that I have been testing all either had blue cards to Pyroblast or Ramunap Excavator or Collector Ouphe to bold or Swords. Oath is actually really good in that matchup!

So as far as maindeck hate goes I worry about Thalia, Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog and Shaman far more than seeing 3 Force of Wills over 4 turns while having no counters myself.

If going a single creature route then another thought I had is Muldrotha the Gravetide.

She lets you play both Fastbond and Crucible out of the yard for a total of 4 mana. Since you can get one land from your yard to begin with you really only need 3 mana, so she is an alternative to Rasputin Dreamweaver and actually has some synergy with Ziasbond in general although her colors are wrong. I liked Rasputin in the Ziasbond variant because on problem is the Resistors can make it touch to combo out and Rasputin just dodges that because the 7 mana is plenty.

For my list Muldrotha has the benefit of being reasonable to hardcast (if I can find a black source) and being blue. Any creature that can be pitched to Force is huge because a limitation of my list is it only has 19 Blue cards so every blue card helps to keep Force viable.

I am still leaning towards creatureless in the maindeck because I just don't have room for multiple Stadiums or Coliseums and then creatures that ignore the graveyard post board since I will mostly want them when my yard is hated out.

Because of the maindeck hate I am tempted to add a Chain of Vapor in place of Spell Pierce. A singleton Chain helps a lot against Thalia. A main drawback is having fewer counters for Crop Rotation.

@meadbert

I tried Sevinne's Reclamation in a few of the lists, both with and without the Oath sideboard, and liked it quite a bit.

To make Reclamation reliable with the Oath board, I adopted @brianpk80's tech of using Oath creatures that prevent the opponent from casting spells on your turn.

The three creatures I tried were Dragonlord Dromoka, Archon of Valor's Reach (naming instant), and Sanctum Prelate (e.g., name 4 for Ravenous Trap, 5 for FOW etc.).

Of these creatures, Archon of Valor's Reach was the most powerful when it hit the board, as it effectively ends the game against most decks on the spot. The Prelate had a smaller impact, but was easier to cast and is simply more reliable. Dromoka was hit-or-miss. The lifelink and uncounterability were nice, but she often didn't stick around long enough to execute the Loam plan.

Oathing into Prelate may seem counterintuitive, but it can actually be quite effective in allowing you to play Loam without worrying about disruption. You can play multiple Prelates, too, meaning that you can shut the opponent down from multiple angles (against Xerox, naming 1, 4, and 5 in order locks them out of the most relevant counterplay). You needn't fear Cage, either, as your castable threat goes right to the top of your library (a sort of build-your-own Worldly Tutor, which is also tech from our dear Mr. Dragonlord).

I liked Oathing into castable creatures, like Prelate, Ouphe, and threats, like Ramnunap Excavator. The point of these creatures isn't to win the game on their own like Griselbrand, but to enable your original gameplan or slow down your opponent.

last edited by Zias

I wondered if maybe Sun Titan could be a good Oath target in such a shell?
Depending on the game state it could get you both combo pieces with milled fastbond and/or crucible, it could find the missing part of the depths/stage combo (or any other land you need), it gets spheres to protect yourself/slow down the opponent, adds resiliency by returning destroyed/countered stuff if it stays on the battlefield long enough.
A split of expedition map/crop rotation might be worthwile then. And its trigger also plays around countermagic, it is semi-castable and one could even return stuff like oko or seal of primordium... but maybe all of that is just too cute 😄

I liked all 4 ideas for creatures.

Dragonlord and Archon are nice in that they protect the combo, are decent beat down creatures and are hard cast able. For my list, their biggest downside is they are not blue, but in Ziasbond they are super strong.

Sun Titan also has some potential. The downside with Titan is because he does not fly his ability to beat down is diminished. You run the risk of your opponent blocking with Orchard Tokens and Oathing into something better. So if your yard is hated out, Titan is problematic.

Sanctum Prelate is probably not powerful enough, although being so easily castable is certainly an advantage.

There is a question of whether Dragon Breath makes sense with Titan since it allows grabbing both Crucible and Fastbond in a single turn. I think it does not since the card is dead otherwise and a lot of time you either have a combo piece or you can grab Fastbond and dredge Loam which should be enough to buy you a turn.

There used to be a Tidespout Tyrant combo with Triskelivus or Oona. I wonder if it is worth running some variant on that since it can ignore the yard or remove hate or beat down.

last edited by meadbert

Meloku does too much damage with Fastbond, but can go infinite with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight. The problem is Meloku is weak without Fastbond.

I have been testing mostly my list and here is what I have found. The most important role for Oath creatures is to fight graveyard hate.

The protection creatures like Dramoka and Archon are great in game 1 protecting you against counters, but weaker post board. Because Archon is triggered it does not save you from Ravenous Trap. Dramoka is better, but the beatdown plan is fairly weak compared to the alternatives. Too many times I have had Oath, my opponent Tinkers for Blightsteel and then I flip Dramoka and realize I am dead if I don't draw the win this turn.

Emrakul is very good by itself. If you pull off the normal Turboland combo, but are scared to use Coliseum as a kill condition you can just draw coliseum into Emrakul and then hardcast with infinite mana. The problem is that annihilator let's your opponent sack all tokens and then Oath themselves. This has not burned me, but I always get this bad feeling in my stomach. What if they flip Duplicant or Griselbrand.

Griselbrand is very good because card draw is good in Fastbond decks. Also the life gain can help.

Gisela is good because she cancels both Fastbond and Orchard token damage. She synergize well with Griselbrand because you get double the lifeline.

There is an order dependency where you want Griselbrand first.

My favorite has been running 2xTyrant + Oona. With infinite mana I can straight up deck an opponent with Oona. Just having her is a nice alternative to using Coliseum as the win condition.

The Tyrants are also good because I can bounce various hate and also generate infinite mana with Moxes. Having 4 Gifts I sometimes Gifts for 4 moxes with Tyrant out.

Both creatures are blue which helps support Force.

The main drawback is that being blue they also are vulnerable to Pyroblast. It is nice that both creatures can actually do something at instant speed if they are immediately blasted.

Neither is vulnerable to Karakas.

I would run Griselbrand, Emrakul and Gisela, but I hate having them stuck in hand when Brainstorm and Coliseum are my only options for trading them and they are nearly impossible to hardcast.

I had two more ideas I have not tried yet. Lavinia seems very good in Turboland so I should try a version with her. Also I could run a bunch of Coliseums and Narsets. Then I could use coliseum as a discard 3 effect on my opponent. If I do it on their upkeep they draw 1 and discard 3 and then lose their draw step. That seems good, but establishing threshold is hard to do early in the game.

@meadbert

Minor correction: Archon is not triggered. It's like Sorcerous Spyglass. Once it's in, you name the card type and they can't respond.

last edited by Zias

Thank you for the correction!
That makes Archon a lot better. It is more on par with Dramoka.

Dramoka was outstanding in Game 1s in lists where I ran a bunch of combo pieces and hoped to hit them before Dramoka. The problem is that weakened the overall maindeck because these decks did not want to do stuff like run 3 Nomad Stadiums.

In games 2 and 3 I wanted something that was a bit scarier as a beatstick.

The 3 worst cards in the list I posted are Fastbond #4, Crucible #4 and the lone Spell Pierce. I might swap those out, but I am not sure what I would swap them for. I mostly need defense at this point. Gush is still an option since it allows my to win after Oathing with just two blue mana which I cannot do without it. Jace, Oko and Narset are options. Narset seems strong, but messes up my win condition, so I don't think that is an option in game 1.

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