I think this card opens up Humans or it can help a Belcher deck. The ability to get Spirit Guides or a Tinder Walk will help Belcher. The humans deck can find Cavern and or a creature to attack the opposing deck.
It also works in HateBears or if Eldrazi went green this card could really help it.
@fsecco Understood. But this card on turn one, I keep a hand with Thalia and I use this to look at the top five and get a Cavern of Souls. That is value add. Even later in the game if I draw this and I get to pick the creature or land in a creature based tempo deck that is good.
Now the bigger issue is that Human is like tier 6 but this card helps it.
@moorebrother1 You picking up Cavern in that scenario is wishful thinking and not at all consistent. That's my point. You're juset dilluting the deck for a card that is actually harder to cast under Thalia. I think this has a home in Dredge as Troll 2-5 or Survival. In humans I highly doubt it and would rather play red or white Recruiters.
In Belcher too, I'd never dilute the deck to a point where I play 4 of these + 4 Spirit Guides and 4 Tinder Wall in order for this to work.
This card is insane in HollowBeats. I'm testing Edge of Autumn and it's not awful. This is insane. The fact that you can Bazaar as not a spell as Garfield intended then find this, then go 5 deeper to find more mummies made of rock is bonkers.
Could even allow some Arc-Light Phoenix stuff too.
What this card does for dredge is turn a mull to 1 into a mull to 6 as far as finding bazaar goes. Its green to pitch to FoV which is a big plus. I think if it didn't have both of those properties it wouldnt be considered. But since it has both, its worth looking at.
The fact that it is an instant to me is a big deal as well. I'm trying to see what they are trying to do with this in other format right now because I think it is more than the sum of its parts.
- In modern it fetches tron pieces in a deck that will take it free but also can just cast it.
- I saw someone theory crafting around free from hand creatures like Faerie Macabre, hollow one, and Myr Enforcer, seemed ok but not crazy
- Glimmerpost stuff.
I mean, it's hard for me to conceive of a world where this is not something somewhere, because at 2 mana this effect at instant speed is already pretty good.
This card is great. 2 mana for this effect alone is too much for vintage, it'd be good for 1 mana. But being free as the first spell obviously changes things, so...
As a survival player I can see myself wanting some copies of it, specially in builds with maindeck force of vigor. If it's not in your first hand you will either have the mana to play it or bazaar to 'cycle' it. We have several kinds of cards between lands and creatures, and we can have at least like 4 different approaches with our first hands:
-fast bazaar with VV+rootwalue and hollow
-survival with or without manarock/dork
-playing out hatebears
-'ramping' into 4-mana 4/3 haste (yeah, it happens and depending on the situation it's not bad).
-blind bazaar hands (only lands and irrelevant spells, trying to get lucky)
In all of those situations there are good, mediocre and bad cards for the situation. Cards that are great in some of those are bad in others. But this free turn 1 spell can grab cards that go into any of those situations. If you have it turn 1 it may be better than vengevine or even bazaar.
It's a mix of redundancy and filtering.
I don't think I'd run 4, maybe not now (having 2-4 of these in your openning hand would be bad). I can easily see myself playing 2 copies of this.
I don't know about other decks, I get the world isn't about survival (not of the fittest at least), but I'm just showing a case where this card WILL be good.
@protoaddict if we are thinking about finding hollow one, before/after bazaar activation doesn't matter, since you're seeing the top 7 anyway. i think correct sequencing in survival will always be to play this before bazaar activation, or even before playing bazaar. it definitely will be in dredge, where you will often be taking a dredger to discard.
I have a question for folks. Do people think this card could be sufficient as a pseudo Serum Powder effect for creature/hatebear decks such that those deck would no longer need/want a dedicated draw engine like bob? What I mean to say is, could a GW deck be possible that went "all in" on prison and just ran this card as an early game free "fixer" for finding that 1 extra lock piece? My theory is that the answer is yes but I wanted to get thoughts from the community.
@stormanimagus my immediate response would be to say no. for these purposes I'm assuming that as a 2 mana spell it's a dead draw, especially given whatever sphere effects you will have. I think this spell will be at its best in decks that either:
- have the mana and need to cast additional copies as they draw them(I'm interested in it for legacy dark depths lists in this role, modern tron obviously, etc)
- will cast their first copy turn 1 and then end up not worrying about ever casting the rest(dredge or survival both might want this turn 1 and then have bazaars to discard excess copies to when 2 mana is too much)
in decks that don't fit one of these categories, I think this is comparable to mana acceleration in terms of being useful early game and dead later, but even moreso, as the dropoff starts as soon as you cast any other spell on turn 1; drawing a mox or a spirit guide on turn two or three still advances your gameplan, while drawing this usually doesn't.
mainly my questions are how often do you think you are going to be able to pay the mana cost for this, and how long do you expect your games to go? if you won't regularly have 1G+thalia then the card is essentially a leyline. I'm interested in seeing testing, and the ability of this to hit spirit guides is probably relevant for someone trying to maximize their ability to make big turn 1 plays.
This card is basically good in any deck that wants to build a 50-card-or-less deck (4x this, 4x wraith, 1x git probe, X cantrip). In decks that want multiple pieces or several options, I think this card is just 4 less spots for gas. Keeping a hand with this as your first or second land drop, hoping to see one in the top 5, is almost always worse than just mulling. The times you use it turn 0 and wiff on a land you wanted, it will cost you games.