Oath of Nissa and Mishra's Workshop



  • Oath of Nissa reads:

    You may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast planeswalker spells.

    While Mishra's Workshop reads:

    Spend this mana only to cast artifact spells.

    One puts a restriction on mana, while Oath adds a layer after the resolution of the trigger. Can you spend workshop mana on planeswalkers?



  • Tricky question. Someone asked it here (http://www.legacy-france.org/index.php?showtopic=13577) in French and I agree with the answer provided, which is No.

    You end up with the mana that can ONLY be spent on artifacts, and can also be spent as mana of any color if that artifact is a planeswalker (from wacky stuff like Lattice).

    In MTG, can't always beats can. Though Workshop isn't directly worded with a "can't," its still a restriction on how to use the mana and so is not superceded by Oath.



  • So Oath of Nissa isn't a layer, it's just an option.

    The word "layer" is very important.



  • Individual cards aren't layers; layers are just the levels at which characteristic-changing effects are placed relative to one another. They are used to describe how +3/+3 interacts with changing base power/toughness, or how color-changing interacts with Devoid. They don't come into play here because no characteristics are being affected.

    There is a somewhat similar system of layers for replacement effects but these mana restrictions/allowances aren't replacement effects, just mana with the property that they must/can be spent in a certain fashion.

    And its not so much that one is optional, just that Workshop is a restriction: regardless of other things, the mana must be spent on artifacts. If the artifact is a walker, you also can spend the colorless as any color.


  • TMD Supporter

    It would seem as though it's allowed though, because it's colorless mana, regardless of the restriction implied with the shop. The enchantment says you can use mana of any color to cast planeswalkers, any colorless should be used for it.



  • @Juggernaut-GO said:

    It would seem as though it's allowed though, because it's colorless mana, regardless of the restriction implied with the shop. The enchantment says you can use mana of any color to cast planeswalkers, any colorless should be used for it.

    Think of it this way: You can only use this mana for artifacts. However, IF you could use this mana for planeswalkers, it could be used for any color mana that planeswalker needs. Oath of Nissa doesn't grant mana a special ability that allows it to be used for planeswalkers. It grants it a special ability that allows you to change the color of the mana when you are using it to play a planeswalker. Subtle but important difference.



  • @Juggernaut-GO

    No, the mana MUST be spent for an artifact spell. Nothing else satisfies the Workshop mana's restriction. Oath has no restriction, only allowances. "Can't beats can" applies here, you must fulfill all restrictions and cannot ignore them just because another card says you "can/may" do something else.



  • @gkraigher Looks like you would only be able to use the mana to cast a card of type "Artifact Planeswalker"


  • TMD Supporter

    it was wishful thinking, I called a judge and it's as you say


  • TMD Supporter

    it would work with ancient tomb/sol ring?





  • Hi folks, so it seems we have a few questions about the interactions of Oath of Nissa and Mishra's Workshop.

    So first off let us start with this with this rule:

    106.6. Some spells or abilities that produce mana restrict how that mana can be spent, have an additional effect that affects the spell or ability that mana is spent on, or create a delayed triggered ability (see rule 603.7a) that triggers when that mana is spent. This doesn't affect the mana's type.

    The mana that we get from Mishra's Workshop falls under this particular rule. This rule simply acknowledges that some mana has restrictions placed on it; however, the type of mana we get from the Workshop is {C} as we would expect.
    Now once we generate that mana and we decide to pay some associated cost of a spell or ability we are attempting to cast or activate we have this rule here:

    117.3. A player can't pay a cost unless he or she has the necessary resources to pay it fully. For example, a player with only 1 life can't pay a cost of 2 life, and a permanent that's already tapped can't be tapped to pay a cost. See rule 202, "Mana Cost and Color," and rule 602, "Activating Activated Abilities."

    This rule essentially says we are not allowed to pay costs for a spell or ability, unless we have everything we need to do so. Importantly this includes the appropriate mana both in amount and in type.
    Now you may be wondering, but Oath of Nissa says the following:

    You may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast planeswalker spells.

    and the Workshop (for reference) says:

    {T}: Add {C}{C}{C} to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast artifact spells.

    This is just great! I have some mana in my mana pool from my Misrha's Workshop, that I cannot use unless I use it to cast an artifact (thanks to the Workshops restriction), and that I may use as if it were any colour to cast Planeswalkers! So the question here is which one of these wins!?!

    Logically if we work this out we have mana that may be used to cast Planeswalker spells as though it were any colour, but also can only be used to cast Artifact spells. So with the mana from my workshop I can use it to cast any Artifact spell I so desire, as normal without an Oath involved. In addition I may also spend that mana to cast Planeswalker spells using the mana of an appropriate colour type, that are also of type Artifact. I must fulfill the requirements on using the mana or I am not allowed to use it, as per the 117.3 listed above. I have to have all the appropriate mana and in this case I do not since I cannot fulfil the restriction on the mana generated from the Workshop. So if WotC ever gets around to printing another version of Karn, or some yet unknown Planeswalker, that requires coloured mana and is also an Artifact, then this particular interaction might be useful; otherwise, might I suggest some other plans for your Oaths.
    Thanks!!!


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.