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Not being a storm player, I'm not 100% positive here, but I suspect that adding Delve as a cost to Will still leaves you with a very, very powerful card. Am I out of my mind or is this card insane?

last edited by MaximumCDawg

@maximumcdawg this card is definitely promising. notably unlike will/PiF it affects cards cast after you play it, and you can play the same card off it multiple times. wheel of fortune/windfall seem particularly good with this, as of course do lotus/LED

Yeah, the more I look, the more I like. This does NOT exile the card you cast with it, unlike Will, which means that you can regrow the same card multiple times as long as you can keep the yard full enough. I can imagine situations where you Underworld, cast Ancestral Recall, and go off to the races by repeatedly Recalling and then filling your yard back up with whatever you draw. Particularly rituals.

This card is good, not sure if it is good enough for Vintage. It is very good with Dack Fayden. It is also very good with Bazaar of Baghdad. I can see some very efficient artifacts, planeswalkers or creatures making use of this. Oath decks can also really break this card with the right build.

Oathing Sun Titan with this in the deck seems bonkers.

@fsecco

I was thinking the same thing at work all day. You could oath into Sun Titan and play this every turn if needed. Also, you could play vault/key or even better Karn, the Great Creator. If you hit Sun Titan with this, Karn, and Black Lotus in your graveyard, it only requires like 10 other cards in the graveyard to cast Lotus enough times to essentially pay for Karn and a SB Mycosynth Lattice, which is pretty easy given the number of creatures typically played in oath.

Marc

here + Lotus/LED + Brainfreeze to myself =infinite

This + brain freeze + black lotus or lion's eye diamond + at least 6 cards in the graveyard is a kill. It doesn't take many cards so it could be fit into any shell that can make a little red mana (as a treat) and put cards in the yard.

If you have 24 or more cards in graveyard you can skip directly to step 3, and just cast lotus 6 times to increase storm count.

1.Cast lotus from yard, crack it, then brain freeze targeting yourself (Storm at 2 from casting Underworld Breach). You've netted 2 storm, 3 cards in your yard and 1 mana.
2.Now Lotus twice and cast brain freeze targetting yourself again (storm at 5), milling 18 cards and netting 4 mana.
3.Recast Lotus one last time (8 mana) and cast brain freeze targetting your opponent twice, (storm 7) for 24 cards, then again (storm 8 ) for 27 cards. You can even cast Brain Freeze in response to Brain Freeze storm trigger to increase storm count.

last edited by Boogdish

@marcb I mean, there's a chance you'll hit Titan before having too many cards for this in the graveyard, which makes me think Saheeli Oath is more reliable.

The thing is I really think this doesn't need to combo off to be good.
Picture playing this and then casting Ancestral 2-3 times from your graveyard. That's good enough for me. I'd crazily just take Cruise and Dig out of a deck and put this in for my first testing session.

Remember when WotC was so scared of Regrowth effects that they added exile clauses to all of them?

Stitcher's supplier + Phyrexian Altar + Jace, Wielder of Mysteries was the combo I was looking at.

You cast the supplier, Altar, Breach. Supplier and Altar let you self mill your whole deck for the cost of half of it. Then you cast Jace off LED or Lotus or just many moxen, and use his ability and win on the spot.

Doesn't the brain freeze plus lions eye diamond / lotus kill just require less space and less bad cards?

All you have to do is jam a single brain freeze and then several underworld breaches in your deck it seems like you have a reasonable battle plan of being able to mail your opponent out at any given time. You're running lotus anyway. you could go all in on the combo by running more freezes and more Lions eyes but I'm not even sure that's necessary

last edited by MaximumCDawg

@maximumcdawg said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:

and more Lions eyes

You'll find this very hard in Vintage.

Both of these strategies are complimentary to each other, can literally be in the same deck.

Out of everything I have seen so far this card already jumps out at me as the"#1 future restricted list recipient award" of this set.

I just figured out what breaks this: Frantic Search. You're welcome.

That's a strong interaction, as it basically reduces the Escape cost to 1 so you get to go looting through your deck as many times as you had cards in your yard. But - where does that end up getting you? Whats' the payoff? Your yard ends up empty so you're not going to Yawgwill anything. You need to have Tendrils in hand or available when you do this. It seems like you're converting cards in your yard into storm, which isn't bad but isn't something that storm decks have trouble doing already. On the other hand, Search is a better card overall than Freeze, so that's nice.

Whats your analysis on this?

@maximumcdawg it digs your deck for whatever you're missing for 0 mana and upping storm. It can even generate mana on the process if you have or find anything to help it (Baral, Pyromancer's Ascension, etc).

@fsecco said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:

I just figured out what breaks this: Frantic Search. You're welcome.

Does it actually fuel you more than wheel effects with a critical mass of mana producers? A Wheel of fortune that draws you 7 cards, 3 of which are moxen to recast wheel could actually self mill you more.

Considering all these pieces are pretty well restricted however, there is probably room for all of them.

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