In my casual deck, this monster even makes Taigam's Scheming seem pretty good!

I've top 8'd the past two vintage challenges with sun titan oath bringing back underworld breach. The deck feels pretty absurd since even if you're not winning by casting time walk 10 times, you often just bolt them 7 times. Two mana hardcast yawgwill has been good as a random value card on several occasions, but I think the card specifically shines in oath because it means your oath triggers actually win the game instead of you having to pass back.

I've followed your lists. Congrats on the finishes. How clunky were the "dead" combo pieces in the first iteration? Did the second list run smoother without those or does it just not matter since you win with the activation anyway?

Honestly, the first list felt really smooth even with the combo pieces, and I naturally vault-keyed people multiple times without oath triggers just by playing a xerox game. Cutting things down to a more streamlined control deck in the second iteration was largely because the combo pieces felt unneeded in games where I actually resolved an oath trigger.

Also, I say the combo heavy first iteration felt smooth, but several people after me tried the list and had pretty terrible runs with it, so I think I might have just drawn the right half of the deck at the right times. The second list has a lot less dead cards while retaining a high probability to win with a single oath trigger, so I think it's a better version.

I've tried the second list and being able to combo on the spot have been amazing. I was struggling against dredge because even though I got to activate oath against it like 80% of the time, I had less than 50% win rate. I just played a few matches against them and it seems way better of a matchup now. The only thing is that now list gets hit by graveyard hate. But this still seems better than the other versions and breach has been awesome.

The thing I enjoy most about the deck compared to the more standard japanese oath lists is knowing that my oath triggers will usually just win the game. It always felt awful oathing into something, drawing some cards, then having to pass back and hope it was enough.

I think that a deck siding in grave hate, aside from cage, is actually good for the oath deck. Cage is obviously really good because it stops pretty much everything, but the more common grave hate answers in leyline and rav trap are actively bad when you can just transition into a xerox deck and pressure them with oko.

what do these decks actually LOOK like at this point?

@stormanimagus

This is what I played to a top 8 two weeks ago and have been playing in leagues since. I skipped the challenge last week, but this maindeck is still very good imo. The sideboard from this list is terrible, I was trying to play mind funeral to beat dredge as a meme, and I'm still trying different hate cards, but mind funeral is not the answer lol. I'm gonna run the maindeck card for card next challenge though.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2705391#online

last edited by notmi

What is Memory's Journey for in these lists?

Also, Mind Funeral WTF?

@stormanimagus memory journey is to not get decked without shuffling back key cards (gaea's blessing's substitute for a graveyard dependant oath) and mind funeral beats dredge decks that play only 4 bazaar as lands... in theory at least.

@stormanimagus said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:

What is Memory's Journey for in these lists?

Also, Mind Funeral WTF?

What you have to understand is that this deck actively uses the graveyard as the hand on the turn you oath. There are times when it's correct to oath with zero oath targets in deck, mill yourself, then memory's journey in your upkeep with escape to put specific cards on top to draw. Journey is the best option I think, instant speed, has flashback, blue to pitch to force.

Also, the idea behind mind funeral was to go away from the pseudo-prison role that nearly every deck has to play against dredge and instead play 4 cards that just actively win the game when cast. Standard dredge lists play 4 bazaar and mulls to 1 of them, so mind funeral should always put them to zero cards in deck. It's also a very quick and easy kill if you ever manage to resolve an oath trigger to get back breach, even if they've made 100 zombies you can never fight through.

It has worked in practice, but I think three mana is too slow even with all the mana rocks I'm playing.

@notmi

I've been trying your Breach Oath build out on MTGO practice rooms and wanted to ask you a few questions.

How you combat other combo decks that are faster than you?

Your previous build used Vault/Key as a wincon. How is this version winning through zombie/pyromancer tokens or a few shops creatures?

Would you consider Saheeli (this was suggested to me on Twitter) to win the turn Titan enters play? Would this just make it the old Saheeli Titan Oath? Does Breach make that build stronger?

@pugsuperstar said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:

@notmi

I've been trying your Breach Oath build out on MTGO practice rooms and wanted to ask you a few questions.

How you combat other combo decks that are faster than you?

Your previous build used Vault/Key as a wincon. How is this version winning through zombie/pyromancer tokens or a few shops creatures?

Would you consider Saheeli (this was suggested to me on Twitter) to win the turn Titan enters play? Would this just make it the old Saheeli Titan Oath? Does Breach make that build stronger?

Against decks like PO and DPS, you slide into a control role with tons of counterspells and look to play a xerox game until you eventually win, often with some incidental wincon like oko beats or attacking with a hardcast sun titan. I actually tend to trim an oath against the super fast combo decks, because the games are rarely about resolving an early oath.

The vault/key stuff has been replaced with a much more efficient wincon in bolt. You can just bolt them 7 times, bolt is less dead in most matchups, and it takes up way fewer slots mainboard and sideboard.

I would not consider saheeli at all. Breach is significantly better than the old saheeli lists because breach is actually a playable vintage card that is reasonable to put in your deck without any kind of combo. Saheeli is pretty awful to put in your deck. Generally speaking, hardcasting and resolving a breach wins the game a decent percentage of the time. Hardcasting and resolving a saheeli is a wasted turn.

If you're putting a titan into play, getting back breach, and mill over 20 or so cards, you should be able to figure out a way to win from there. It might involve time walks and okos, it might involve bolts, or some other combination of cards, but it's hard to lose when you draw 20 cards.

So a non-oath list won the challenge this week which had breach as a one-of. I have been at around 70% win in league with my multiple breach list that is 4 color (no green), anyone else experimenting ? Is it time to make a couple deck threads?

@garbageaggro
I’m definitely interested in your list!

@wfain Our friend @chubbyrain took it down. Here is his list
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Underworld Breach
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Black Lotus
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Spell Pierce
1 Repeal
1 Peek
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Daze
1 Dig Through Time
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Negation
1 Gush
1 Brain Freeze
1 Mental Misstep
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Dack Fayden
3 Pyroblast
4 Force of Will
4 Preordain
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
Sideboard
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Containment Priest
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fragmentize
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Hydroblast
1 Infernal Reckoning
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wear / Tear
1 Lightning Bolt

last edited by moorebrother1

@moorebrother1 That list is a bit disappointing to me from a builder's perspective. Isn't that basically Jeskai mentor but replacing 2x dreadhordes with a miser copy of underworld breach and brainfreeze for "oops, combo" wins? Breach is likely red yawg-will here and the brainfreeze will just fuel it and delve spells and randomly steal a win off dredge. I'm sure the cards are great here - but doesn't jeskai mentor just win anyway, even if you never see these spells? I was hoping more for a breach list - not an established list just using breach as yawg will.

Lion's Eye Diamond is a Jeskai Mentor card?

The entire thought process behind the deck was to build a xerox style strategy with a powerful combo finish to beat other xerox decks, if I recall chubby's statements correctly. It is notably dipping into black as a 4th color in order to facilitate that, which pretty obviously separates it from normal jeskai mentor.

  • 90
    Posts
  • 12822
    Views