Doomsday...

EDIT: As I think about this more, isn't this just a far easier and less complicated win off Doomsday than @Smemmen's Lab Man / Unearth piles? The order of cards in your pile isn't super relevant anymore, because Oracle costs only 2 mana which is pretty trivial. You can make a pile that's just:

Draw spell, draw spell, draw spell, Thassa, something else

And even if it gets messed up a bit, that's fine because all you need to do is cast Thassa to win.

last edited by MaximumCDawg

You can play Paradigm Shift and Tormod's Crypt yourself.

Seems more reliable than lab man, as if it gets killed you still win the game, rather than losing (which would be the case with kill lab man in response to drawing with no cards).

This is much better than Lab Man in Doomsday:

  1. It costs 1 less mana.
  2. You can draw up to 3 (!!) fewer cards with it to win the game
  3. If you have zero cards in your library when its ability resolves, you still win. So unless your opponent counters Doomsday or the creature, you just win now if you can get your library to zero cards. (Before, you'd have to get your library down to zero cards, THEN cast a draw spell, THEN hope they don't have removal OR bank a counterspell for it.)

These are all gigantic improvements. Often in tight games playing Doomsday you will find yourself one mana or 1-2 card draws short of being able to combo off and will have to pass the turn, usually resulting in a loss. This happens a lot -- in maybe 25% of the games you play where both you and your opponent have reasonable draws, I'd say. It's especially common against shops, where the presence of a sphere will tax you one or two critical turns because you either couldn't afford Lab Man, or couldn't afford to cast a draw spell after he resolved.

Also, crucially, because you don't have to include as many card draw spells in your piles, you can now include more counterspells, duresses, artifact removal, or cards like Time Walk and Yawgmoth's Will in your piles to provide extra resilience.

Basically, this card takes the bare requirements for Doomsday to be a win down by a huge amount, and therefore either speeds up your kill, improves its resilience, or reduces the number of resources you'll need to win off of it, all for basically free over Lab Man. These are huge improvements that should be tested for.

Bug Shell

Hermit ..pass
Untap
Active hermit
Memory 's journey flashback
on top
Unearth
Draw step
sacrificie druid flashback Cabal
Play unearth for thassa o.

Playable?

last edited by babau

With this card, it seems to be easier to figure out doomsday stacks. The lab man stack requires you to cast lab man, then draw into 0 card library. With this you can easily cast and win with 2 cards in library. Doomsday may actually be playable.

Ancestral recall
Black lotus
Thassa
x
x

last edited by covetousrat

Much better than Lab Maniac and that was playable.

cough demonic consultation cough

Hermit + narco + dread.r.+ thassa o.

@rbartlet

Consult on a stick, Divining Witch, is also a Wizard so you can play a 1-card combo that is uncounterable with Cavern of Souls. The biggest issue of getting blown out by random removal spell is gone by playing this card instead of Maniac.

@vaughnbros notably, this card and divining witch cannot be cast off the same cavern, unlike labman

I love how in basically every other format this is worse than Augur of Bolas.

@blindtherapy
I think the better 1 card combo with this is Hermit Druid, despite not having cavern you get therapy.

last edited by John Cox

@protoaddict I was thinking it could replace lab maniac in the modern neoform deck but i actually think due to the way that deck works, which is drawing the last cards with grizelbrand, it actually can't. hmm. i think this will exist as a fringe legacy/modern card to a similar degree as labman, unless there's some way to turn it on that im missing.

Regarding Doomsday, this card really changes the math of doomsday stacks - I like the Laboratory Maniac more because you don't have to play laboratory maniac as the last card in your game, so you could cast it earlier and still win. I have actually won games by casting Laboratory Maniac, then using Time Walk to fuel the Doomsday stack.

This card drastically changes the math to Doomsday, so there's a lot of analysis to determine if this card is better than Laboratory Maniac.

This card is better than Lab Man, but Doomsday really just wants 4 Gush.

@desolutionist said in Tassa's oracle:

This card is better than Lab Man, but Doomsday really just wants 4 Gush.

This literally will never happen again, and rightfully so.

@desolutionist said in Tassa's oracle:

This card is better than Lab Man, but Doomsday really just wants 4 Gush.

@13nova said in Tassa's oracle:

@desolutionist said in Tassa's oracle:

This card is better than Lab Man, but Doomsday really just wants 4 Gush.

This literally will never happen again, and rightfully so.

Do you two think that doomsday will ever be a contender again without 4 gush?

last edited by John Cox

Removal proofing is big for Doomsday as well. You don’t need to stack your pile to answer Swords and other removal.

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